Is baptism essential unto salvation?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

All I know is this what happened to me.

I went to an altar and repented of my sins, crying out to Jesus to forgive me. The men around me were praying for Jesus to forgive me. Suddenly I felt the weight of my own sin lift from my shoulders, I was forgiven. Then I began to praise Him and as I did God filled me with the Holy Ghost and I spoke in tongues for over 40 minutes. When the Spirit subsided and I was able to stand I was told that I needed to be water baptized in Jesus name. I gladly accepted and was water baptized that night in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior.

I was forgiven before I was water baptized. Even the Holy Ghost testifies to that reality because I was filled to overflowing with God’s Spirit BEFORE my water baptism. God will not dwell in an unclean vessel. If sins aren’t forgiven (aphesis Gk., remitted or forgiven) at repentance people would receive the Holy Ghost only after water baptism.
The acts of coming into covenant including Abraham where only brought about by responding to God ot his command. Not simply repentance! Abraham was not in covenant until HE DID! As was Noah or anyone else.
I don’t know about you… but I was delivered at an old fashioned altar.

See my points before on this about receiving the manifestation of the HS before baptism.

Repentance does allow one to feel a weight leave as does any confession and people testify to this religious or not. Also your argument for "unclean" vessel is poor and lacks foundation in your intent of it's use. As I have said before he only needs heart turned/repentant which is not at enmity with him to use them. Has nothing to do with "sins" what makes a person unclean is his heart at enmity/fighting against God. Repentance brings you to the alter prepared to be able to offer your gift/yourself to be united with him in death.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Repentance is what I do.
Baptism is what I do.

Speaking in tongues is what God does to verify the work of salvation that has already occured. To be able to heal the sick, cast out devils, apeak in new tongues are divine Promises from God to those who have His Spirit.

God never presented that we must cast out devils to verify we are saved and never instructed folks to use casting out devils as a guage to measure someone's salvation.



Concerning my previous statement on baptism, I was wrong.




Baptism "saves" us in that it is an answer to "a good conscience." 1 Peter 3:21

In other words, the person has already repented, already experienced godly sorrow for sins-- the sorrow that brings about a change.

That change in heart (evidenced in the conscience) is THE SIGN of salvation.
And so, the role of baptism is to testify of that change that has already taken place.


I cite the scripture in James that says show me your faith by my works.



So I change my mind.

Repentance(faith) and baptism go hand in hand.


That is my stance and I'm sticking to it, until shown otherwise in scripture.
Sorry for being such a flip-flopper.

If a person repents and dies without chance to get baptized, God alone is the discerner of the hearts of men. However, for those who repent and live long enough to get baptized must do so in order for their faith to line up with scriptures.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Repentance is what I do.
Baptism is what I do.

Speaking in tongues is what God does to verify the work of salvation that has already occured. To be able to heal the sick, cast out devils, apeak in new tongues are divine Promises from God to those who have His Spirit.

God never presented that we must cast out devils to verify we are saved and never instructed folks to use casting out devils as a guage to measure someone's salvation.

We can argue initial manifestation in another thread!

Concerning my previous statement on baptism, I was wrong.

Baptism "saves" us in that it is an answer to "a good conscience." 1 Peter 3:21

Yes, and that good conscience is called faith in his promise to do what he said he would do among a few things.

In other words, the person has already repented, already experienced godly sorrow for sins-- the sorrow that brings about a change.

All true repentance religious or not does that, though I understand your point and agree.

That change in heart (evidenced in the conscience) is THE SIGN of salvation.

No it's the result of conviction of the position he finds himself before a Holy God and see what is true. His response by repentance is immediately that which will identify himself with him who died and will forgive him.... BAPTISM

Notice the flow of the text.... Repent/turn and be baptized/united with Christ everyone of you....

And so, the role of baptism is to testify of that change that has already taken place.

It can but only God decides if it is true but in the perfect world yes. Repentance is the change of the heart but the realization or completion of the change is in baptism as the old self is crucified with him and thus covenant position changes. As I have said before it does not place you in Christ as a covenant member. Baptism does that!

I cite the scripture in James that says show me your faith by my works.

Faith is completed by works otherwise that which is said is realized in the action and not before.
Your repentance is completed in baptism which is the realization of faith of his promise to do not just the type. Thus it's reality is not true until then.

So I change my mind.

We'll keep working on that.

Repentance(faith) and baptism go hand in hand.

Nothing more true!

That is my stance and I'm sticking to it, until shown otherwise in scripture.
Sorry for being such a flip-flopper.

ahhh part of life and we all do and have! Well maybe except for epley! LOL!

[clgustaveson]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Great Commission is found in Matthew28, Mark 16, Luke 24, and Acts 1. And yes, baptism is mentioned in both Matthew and Mark; and alluded to in Luke 24. It is implimented in Acts 2 and contains water baptism.



My apologies, perhaps I misunderstood your question. Could you ask it again, I'll gladly answer it.



lol

I'm typing pretty plain English here and I'm drawing a conclusion based in implication which is the result of critical thinking. And I've offered no accusations toward anyone. I have indicated that those who do not baptize or who will not be baptized are in direct rebellion in relation to Christ's commission. That's common sense, not an accusation. I was military. If a commanded issued a command... it is to be obeyed. Choosing to disobey a lawful order in time of war is a serious offense.

So now let me ask you yet again,

Do you believe that water baptism is a command of Scripture? Yes or no?

Please provide a one word answer.

Is there a commission that we should get baptized to be saved? Does the Bible say that this is something essential to salvation?

I am not asking whether or not the Bible compels us to baptize... A commission to baptize people is not the same as it being essential to salvation... that is a dangerous assumption.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Is there a commission that we should get baptized to be saved? Does the Bible say that this is something essential to salvation?

I am not asking whether or not the Bible compels us to baptize... A commission to baptize people is not the same as it being essential to salvation... that is a dangerous assumption.

When you view the scriptures as a whole, the picture is painted clearly that a Christian is to be baptized. Baptism is commanded in the Bible.

[Falla39]

The teacher of the adult class yesterday, said, "The water washed away the past, the Spirit will take care of our future".

John, the Baptist, preached the message of repentance. BUT he expained
that there was one coming afterwards who would baptize them with the
Spirit. (Holy Ghost and fire.) It would seem that those who believe they are
saved at repentance are still following John the Baptist. (no offense intended)

Before a mother gives birth, she usually goes through a cleansing preparation to prepare for the birth. Looks like Repentance and baptism would do the same, before the new birth.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38

Falla39

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

See my points before on this about receiving the manifestation of the HS before baptism.

Repentance does allow one to feel a weight leave as does any confession and people testify to this religious or not. Also your argument for "unclean" vessel is poor and lacks foundation in your intent of it's use. As I have said before he only needs heart turned/repentant which is not at enmity with him to use them. Has nothing to do with "sins" what makes a person unclean is his heart at enmity/fighting against God. Repentance brings you to the alter prepared to be able to offer your gift/yourself to be united with him in death.

Brother, with all due respects... I know that I was forgiven. We praised him and thanked him for His forgiveness, asking that he fill me with his Spirit. I was forgiven, plain and simple. However, if I would have refused to be water baptized I would have been in rebellion.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Falla39

The teacher of the adult class yesterday, said, "The water washed away the past, the Spirit will take care of our future".

John, the Baptist, preached the message of repentance. BUT he expained
that there was one coming afterwards who would baptize them with the
Spirit. (Holy Ghost and fire.) It would seem that those who believe they are
saved at repentance are still following John the Baptist. (no offense intended)

Before a mother gives birth, she usually goes through a cleansing preparation to prepare for the birth. Looks like Repentance and baptism would do the same, before the new birth.

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Luke 24:47

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38

Falla39

Falla, water is H2O. It has no spiritual property, therefore it can't wash away sin.

I fear we use terms that make an idol out of water. Water is just water, as stone is just stone. There is no saving power in water. However, there is saving power in the name when one calls on that name. It appears that Paul was instructed to call on that name as part of water baptism. It was calling on the name that washes the sins away.

This isn't meant to detract from the necessity of water baptism. In water baptism we are symbolically buried with him.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Falla, water is H2O. It has no spiritual property, therefore it can't wash away sin.

I fear we use terms that make an idol out of water. Water is just water, as stone is just stone. There is no saving power in water. However, there is saving power in the name when one calls on that name. It appears that Paul was instructed to call on that name as part of water baptism. It was calling on the name that washes the sins away.

This isn't meant to detract from the necessity of water baptism. In water baptism we are symbolically buried with him.

As I said in an earlier post a few days ago, the power is NOT in the water
as there is no power in the oil when laying hands on the sick. It is the NAME
called in baptism and in praying for the sick. Obedient faith in the Name of
Jesus!

Gal. 3:27,
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(or have been clothed with Christ.)

Blessings,

Falla39

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Falla39

As I said in an earlier post a few days ago, the power is NOT in the water
as there is no power in the oil when laying hands on the sick. It is the NAME
called in baptism and in praying for the sick. Obedient faith in the Name of
Jesus!

Gal. 3:27,
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(or have been clothed with Christ.)

Blessings,

Falla39

So we agree that the statement, ""The water washed away the past, the Spirit will take care of our future.", is not theologically accurate, correct?

Now again, this brings back the issue of who is to call upon the name at baptism, the preacher or the convert? In Paul's baptism Paul was clearly told to call on the name of the Lord. We've sacramentalized what should be free flowing.