Love One Another and the Cross

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But to someone who believes the Bible is not written to deceive, but considers the distortion of the word an incidental result of dishonest hearts, the bible is something to learn from and gain our beliefs from. You spent over half your life, I think it was, with Muslims whom you've come to appreciate as anyone would. But you disregarded plain scripture that states denial of the Son of God is antichrist, and took the plain teaching of the Word and made it of none effect. You expose this by lack of willingness to actually talk about those scriptures.

it is not from lack of willingness, but lack of social context, which i hope i have made plain. The Muslim refusal of the iconography rampant in Constantine's church is taken to mean refusal of Christ by Christians looking to pick a fight, or legalistically insisting upon differences, when all that may be meant is "don't be praying to Mary." Or Christ, for that matter. "God has no Son" means something different to them than to you, and the Qur'an's declarations that one must follow Christ or be doomed demonstrate this. And i never said that the first Muslim had ever been "saved," anyway--i said that anyone declaring someone else "lost" lacks humility, and should be re-examining their own dogma, because they are hypocrites.

Originally Posted by mfblume

There is no new truth for the last two thousand years since the New Covenant came into being. IN fact, it was n't really new then, either, just revealed from mystery.

you got that right--but it is still, apparently, a mystery to us whether Peter said that baptism is essential or not!

Originally Posted by mfblume

I did. I showed you the bible saying people WERE saved, are being saved and will be saved. You never so much as acknowlewdged that proposition.

ah, must have missed that. Can you show me one now? I don't think you can.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Shazeep, how many ways can you make a post by avoiding scriptural discussion, and instead continue the strawman arguments? I can't keep up the count!

and...


You do this all the time. You make all these claims, and when I ask you to prove it and discuss the very scripture with which you claim I do it, you bail. You refuse. In short you make strawman arguments and cannot deal with my actual claims of faith.

well, i would be happy to go search "gutless" and we can go over it again; or your "why do you answer like that?" to my replying to you with Scriptural quotes; but i am not going to, Mike. I am not interested anymore, ok?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

it is not from lack of willingness, but lack of social context, which i hope i have made plain. The Muslim refusal of the iconography rampant in Constantine's church is taken to mean refusal of Christ by Christians looking to pick a fight, or legalistically insisting upon differences,

Here is your strawman argumentation.

Neither I nor anyone else here that I know of thought about Muslims and said, "What scripture can refute their beliefs?" and then hunted them down. We read the bible where it says denial of Christ as Son makes one an antichrist. And we said, "Wow. Look at that. I never LOOKED for it, but that verse right there is cause for the mulsim faith to be considered antichrist due to its repeated insistence in the Koran GOD CANNOT HAVE A SON."

We did not WANT to believe that. We had to! The bible said it! We did not LOOK for it. The bible presented it to us. But I can see why you refuse to accept that claim, because you seemingly refuse o let the bible teach you, and insist on demanding God's word not say anything that causes people like Muslims to be lost. Your only argument against the verse is the verse is not saying what we think it says. But to offer YOUR interpretation to what it actually says, is something you won't. more likely can't, do.

when all that may be meant is "don't be praying to Mary." Or Christ, for that matter. "God has no Son" means something different to them than to you, and the Qur'an's declarations that one must follow Christ or be doomed demonstrate this.

In your hopes it demonstrates it. I gotta hand it to you. You really WANT them to be saved. We all do. But you crossed the line where you reject plain statements in the bible that really CANNOT be twisted, and simply say it's not saying what we claim it's saying.

And i never said that the first Muslim had ever been "saved," anyway--i said that anyone declaring someone else "lost" lacks humility, and should be re-examining their own dogma, because they are hypocrites.

You still aren't getting our point. You just refuse to consider it. You made your mind up that you cannot be wrong about the reason a person says a group is lost, and refuse to consider it really is only repeating what the bible said, and not judging anyone at all. the Bible made the judgment. And to show you that such a situation is possible, which you rejected before and will only reject again, we showed you where Jesus said people are judged already and condemned already, and He simply came to save them from that. He said people are already condemned, so it's not Him condemning anyone. Did that mean He rejected the judgment as you are doing? Nope.

you got that right--but it is still, apparently, a mystery to us whether Peter said that baptism is essential or not!
ah, must have missed that. Can you show me one now? I don't think you can.

Mark 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

and...


You do this all the time. You make all these claims, and when I ask you to prove it and discuss the very scripture with which you claim I do it, you bail. You refuse. In short you make strawman arguments and cannot deal with my actual claims of faith.

well, i would be happy to go search "gutless" and we can go over it again; or your "why do you answer like that?" to my replying to you with Scriptural quotes; but i am not going to, Mike. I am not interested anymore, ok?

You never were. Just don't lie about it now by saying you once did. You never actually discussed scripture. You made VAGUE VAGUE attempts at it, with pedantic intentional veiling like some poetic attempt.

And here's another post to add to the count.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Mark 16:16 KJV He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

shall be!

iow, future tense; and conditional, i might add. Is someone who takes it upon themselves to point out how everyone else is doing it wrong a "believer?" Not imo. They are accusers. Even satan quotes Scripture, so what.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You still aren't getting our point. You just refuse to consider it. You made your mind up that you cannot be wrong about the reason a person says a group is lost, and refuse to consider it really is only repeating what the bible said, and not judging anyone at all. the Bible made the judgment. And to show you that such a situation is poss...

ok please just take it to mean that we are too much at odds imo to make any further enlightenment possible. By all means, quote what Scripture you like. (any relevance with previous post unintended)

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

shall be!

iow, future tense; and conditional, i might add.

lol. That is because no one was baptized into the death of Jesus yet, since this was before the time period that would follow the day of Pentecost when the message of baptism for remission of sins was first preached 50 days after the passover's sabbath. And Jesus said when people would fill those conditions of believing a nd being baptized, they would be saved at that moment.

,. Is someone who takes it upon themselves to point out how everyone else is doing it wrong a "believer?" Not imo.

More strawmen. Hay is everywhere today.

They are accusers. Even satan quotes Scripture, so what.

So the bible is worthless. Satan can quote it, so why should we bother? After all, that's what you've decided. It's better to think YOU are right and everyone else is wrong, eh? No matter how much scripture might suggest otherwise, just deny it since satan can quote scripture. No wonder you refuse to chat bible. It's been devalued to an intentionally deceptive volume where we cannot pin down anything.

Phew!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok please just take it to mean that we are too much at odds imo to make any further enlightenment possible. By all means, quote what Scripture you like. (any relevance with previous post unintended)

Big laugh, isn't it?

[shazeep]

well, i'm sure that reading us from the outside is somewhat funny, yes. No harm meant.

Originally Posted by mfblume

So the bible is worthless. Satan can quote it, so why should we bother? After all, that's what you've decided. It's better to think YOU are right and everyone else is wrong, eh? No matter how much scripture might suggest otherwise, just deny it since satan can quote scripture. No wonder you refuse to chat bible. It's been devalued to an intentionally deceptive volume where we cannot pin down anything.

Phew!

that is your conclusion, not mine. I doubt you would care to go over "why do you answer like that?" again.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i'm sure that reading us from the outside is somewhat funny, yes. No harm meant.that is your conclusion, not mine. I doubt you would care to go over "why do you answer like that?" again.

I'm only interested in learning what God wants me to know by His Word. You just won't go there, though.