Christs Two natures are what?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well it's not that he will deny the truth...it's that you could say verbatim "Father and Son are the same Yahweh God" and he will turn around and say "No! You don't believe that. You believe the Son is a mere man and someone one other than God"

In other words, you are not wasting your breath here because he will never accept the truth, you are wasting your breath because when you say "the sky is blue" he will deny you believe the sky is blue.

Ahh, I see.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Well it's not that he will deny the truth...it's that you could say verbatim "Father and Son are the same Yahweh God" and he will turn around and say "No! You don't believe that. You believe the Son is a mere man and someone one other than God"

In other words, you are not wasting your breath here because he will never accept the truth, you are wasting your breath because when you say "the sky is blue" he will deny you believe the sky is blue.

Bro. Blume is not wasting his breath because there are others that

WILL hear! Paul told some Jews in Acts 13 that since they had counted

themselves unworthy to receive salvation, he would now turn to the Gentiles,

for they will hear. In verse 38, the Gentiles heard and were glad, and glorified

the word of the Lord. There are those who may choose not to hear but God's

Word will not return void for there will be those who will hear and be glad.


(from a Bible study on the net).
The Jews saw the large crowds gathered to hear the word of the Lord. They saw the crowd’s devotion to the gospel of salvation through Jesus rather than through the Law of Moses.
Paul and Barnabas preached the gospel first to the Jews. When the Jews rejected the message, Paul and Barnabas preached to the Gentiles. The gospel is too wonderful to be confined to one nation. The Risen One inspires us also to take the gospel of salvation to the ends of the earth

Blessings,

Falla39

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

So is Christ the Father and the Son ..... yes or no? If yes, what do the words; 'Father' and 'Son' mean to you in your theology Praxeas?

If you are referring to the PERSON of Christ....the Divine Hypostasis, then Yes Father and Son are the same Divine Hypostasis.

Father and Son are not the same mode or form or manifestation though. The Son has both Divine and Human essences while the Father exists beyond the incarnation with just Deity only. They are two modes of being of the same Divine Hypostasis.

So they are the same hypostatically. They share the same Divine essence ontologically, but they exist differently due to the Human nature of the Son and the transcendence of the Father

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Falla39

[/b]

Bro. Blume is not wasting his breath because there are others that

I said with him. With Iron Bladder. He is wasting his breath ON him. Get it? IB will NEVER just accept that what MF says he believes he actually believes.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Iron_Bladder

But Praxeas almost every cult and hersy will admit that Jesus is God! The issue isn't one of words but of meanings, what does a Mormon, Trinitarian, JW and Oneness person mean when they say; 'Jesus is God.' sadly the answer is completely different things with regard to the application of divine attributes to the nature of the Father and the Son.

Most cults will say that the Son (Jesus) is God, but will then deny that the Son is eternal, immutible, creator, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient etc. The Bible never states that those who say; 'Jesus is God' are saved or even can be saved. Salvation is dependent upon the application of every divine attribute to the Son which is also applied to the Father, so that if a person were to say that God is eternal or the Father is eternal, but the Son is not eternal, then that person has broken John 8:24.

Likewise the Bible teaches that the Father and the Son are both omnipresent (as the Father and also as the Son), so if a cult say the JWs were to deny this truth then once again; John 8:24. You see a person cannot be a true Christian simply by saying 'jesus is God' becasue every cult also affirms this and then qualifies either the word 'jesus' or the word 'God' to mean that he;s only called God but he doesn't possess any divine attributes (as the Son). So once again John 8:24, the Son is YHWH and those who deny this such as JWs, Mormons, Unitarians etc cannot be saved.

JWs do not teach the Son is God. Unitarians do not teach the Son is God. Mormons teach the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all three different persons like YOU do and that the are each fully God...hmmm like YOU do.

Father and Son are omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent and are both the same One Creator because Yahweh God is both Father and Son. Yahweh became the Son when HE was hypostatically united with a Human nature.

The simple truth Robert and my brothers here, is that Robert here does NOT want to engage his brain and accept what we say we believe and in particular here when MF and myself says what we believe. He can never get passed that because he wants to define what we believe himself, for us.

That is no different than us defining for him that he believes in three gods...Im sure he would not like that

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I said with him. With Iron Bladder. He is wasting his breath ON him. Get it? IB will NEVER just accept that what MF says he believes he actually believes.

Bro. Praxeas,

I understand, but was just re-iterating that in spite of IB's not accepting

MF's beliefs as to him (MF) really believing them, the fact that MF posted

his beliefs on this forum, perhaps there are those who will hear and believe,

from MF having posted it.

Evidently IB didn't count himself worthy of what the Word of God said

he could receive if he obeyed, or he would never have returned from that

he had received. He turned back after having begun. Not good!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Praxeas]

Cool

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You were already answered.
His two natures are called Deity and Humanity. There are no names given to natures.

The Divine nature OF The Father is in Christ's humanity ontologically united, but not mixed or fused. The Divine nature of the Son IS the Divine nature of the Father Rom 8:9

Please think very carefully about your reply Praxeas. For all people or persons have names, but as you’ve said, natures don’t have names being (forgive the pun) by their very nature Impersonal, that it an ‘it’ and not a personal ‘he’ or a ‘she.’ You’ve just admitted that because nature don’t possess names, therefore a nature isn’t God himself but is some impersonal manifestation either of God or from God. Frankly, your manifestations arn't God himself, but are like the impersonal force of the Star wars movies.

Persons have names Praxeas, please think about the dire consequences of your claims.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The Divine nature OF The Father is in Christ's humanity ontologically united, but not mixed or fused. The Divine nature of the Son IS the Divine nature of the Father Rom 8:9

Then how do you explain the divine nature of the Father existing with the divine nature of the Son, each possessing divine glory with the other and loving the other, from before the act of creation in which the divine nature of the Father and the divine nature of the Son were both involved: John 17:5, 17:24, Hebrews 1:2. Praxeas, you fail to critically look at your own beliefs, if you really were right in yoru theology, you'd have no fear of me and wouldn't let me so intimidate you that you end up booting me from these forums.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Extrapolate a bit further back in your reasoning beyond SON. The SON is the person of Jesus manifested in flesh. Jesus is the eternal one. Not the Son. The Son had a beginning. In fact the only reason the bible gives for the title SON is an anthropomorphic reason. The Father impregnated Mary and she birthed a child, making the Son of this mother named Mary and the Father. How can the Son be eternal unless Mary is also eternal? You cannot have an eternal Son without both an eternal Father and Mother. And since this is not the case, the Son is not eternal.

Since the PERSON who is the Son is the same Person who is the Father, and the PERSON is eternal, we see the deity in the Son. The Son does not have to be eternal in order for the person who is the Son to be eternal.



Incorrect. If there is a SINGLE PERSON who is eternal, and manifested as Father, and then also as Son only through incarnation and onward, then the Son is not eternal, but His person is.

You're welcome!

Actually Praxeas has told me that all Oneness Pentecostals believe that the Son has existed eternally and so is an eternal Son. He has warned me that if I ever say that Oneness Pentecostals deny the fact that the Son is eternal, then he’ll boot me form this room (I guess he's afraid of me as he can't refute my claims directly which is why he ducks most of the content of my posts). So what your claiming isn’t Oneness Theology at all – according to Praxeas. For my part I also do believe that the Son is eternal; John 17:5, 17:24, Hebrews 1:2, Colossians 1:16-17, for Yahweh God cannot exist without his divine attributes as cults such as the Unitarians and Christadelphians claim. So Mr Blume, please join Praxeas and myself in affirming Christ’s eternal Sonship.

I tried to start a new post titled; Is the Son an Eternal Son, but I'm restricted and so wasn't able to do this. What I was hoping to do was to take 3 divine attributes: Creatorship, Eternity and Omnipresence and see how the Oneness and Trinitarians in this room defined both the father and the Son according to these three divine attributes. For my part I apply all three attributes to the Father and then both affirm and deny all three attributes for the Son, so as God (SON) is Eternal, Omnipresent and Creator, whilst as a man he's neither Creator, not Omnipresent or Eterenal. Hey it would make a fine new thread.