Question For The Evangelical Type Apostolics

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

One more thing to consider as far as different groups of believers being saved. Jesus didn't tell the Pharisees, Sadducees, Ebionites or other Jewish sects they were heretical or non Jewish. He did line up with the Pharisees doctrinally more than the other groups but didn't condemn them.

Likewise when he told John not to forbid the nan casting out devils just because he wasn't part of their group. I think this indicates we are much more willing to divide and condemn others if the same faith to hell than God is.

While I am more likely to condemn a GROUP than I am people in the group nonetheless the true Church is not just an open society.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 3

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph. 4:4-5

Now this one hits particularly hard!

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor 1:10

It looks as if there is a TRUE CHURCH.

Im not saying that you can only be saved if you are in it (certainly hard to find these days) but it looks as if this itself was an important truth.

It would be THERE we would find and promote the truth in entirety.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:14-15

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

But here's a strange thing. I find it generally just as hard to have close fellowship with the Oneness people who don't see the OTHER THINGS I see!

Yes, I have experienced that as well.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

While I am more likely to condemn a GROUP than I am people in the group nonetheless the true Church is not just an open society.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 3

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph. 4:4-5

Now this one hits particularly hard!

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor 1:10

It looks as if there is a TRUE CHURCH.

Im not saying that you can only be saved if you are in it (certainly hard to find these days) but it looks as if this itself was an important truth.

It would be THERE we would find and promote the truth in entirety.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:14-15

I think these scriptures present the ideal, just like Jesus' prayer to the Father that we all be one.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
While I am more likely to condemn a GROUP than I am people in the group nonetheless the true Church is not just an open society.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 3

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph. 4:4-5

Now this one hits particularly hard!

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor 1:10

It looks as if there is a TRUE CHURCH.

Im not saying that you can only be saved if you are in it (certainly hard to find these days) but it looks as if this itself was an important truth.

It would be THERE we would find and promote the truth in entirety.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:14-15




As was said in a previous post on another thread. The truth teachers are being driven out by the partial truth teachers. The pure truth teacher is a minority, and can ONLY be accomplished by the honest(with God and himself)individual these days. The early church had a problem with a few heretics, but the heretics (the majority) these days, have a problem with a few truth seekers.

And Jason, the things that make us ONE in unity is having BOTH spirit AND truth in common.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
While I am more likely to condemn a GROUP than I am people in the group nonetheless the true Church is not just an open society.

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 3

4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph. 4:4-5

Now this one hits particularly hard!

10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Cor 1:10

It looks as if there is a TRUE CHURCH.

Im not saying that you can only be saved if you are in it (certainly hard to find these days) but it looks as if this itself was an important truth.

It would be THERE we would find and promote the truth in entirety.

14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Tim 3:14-15




As was said in a previous post on another thread. The truth teachers are being driven out by the partial truth teachers. The pure truth teacher is a minority, and can ONLY be accomplished by the honest(with God and himself)individual these days. The early church had a problem with a few heretics, but the heretics (the majority) these days, have a problem with a few truth seekers.

And Jason, the things that make us ONE in unity is having BOTH spirit AND truth in common.

But to me those things alone don't bring the true unity that the scriptures speak of. Its embracing and abiding in the whole counsel of God that makes up THE FAITH once delivered to the saints.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

But to me those things alone don't bring the true unity that the scriptures speak of. Its embracing and abiding in the whole counsel of God that makes up THE FAITH once delivered to the saints.

Michael, this is how I view this passage below. Some have asked me to chill a little, but this passage says otherwise....

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation(commonly understood by all), it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort(To urge by strong, often stirring argument) you that ye should earnestly contend(word synonymous with contention) for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints(the ORIGINAL teachings of the Apostles). Jude 3



We have been instructed to debate hard and "contend" for the ORIGINAL doctrine(faith) that the saints received, anything less than that is compromise bro.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

Michael, this is how I view this passage below. Some have asked me to chill a little, but this passage says otherwise....

3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation(commonly understood by all), it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort(To urge by strong, often stirring argument) you that ye should earnestly contend(word synonymous with contention) for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints(the ORIGINAL teachings of the Apostles). Jude 3



We have been instructed to debate hard and "contend" for the ORIGINAL doctrine(faith) that the saints received, anything less than that is compromise bro.

I get it Sean. I have contended to the ("extreme"?) of not having a local Church to fellowship for I wont tell you how many years. I would not want to discourage you. Sometimes I wonder if it has been worth it.

Here is how I justify it. The same reason Paul would not compromise with Peter and the group from Jerusalem.

Galatians 2:3-5

3But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 4And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

If he would have compromised the truth would have been perverted. Even Apostle James who promoted the law among the Jews said these Judaizers were subverting the souls of the children of light at Antioch.

I have always felt the same about false doctrine. If I commit myself to a Church that teaches heresy I am in effect saying its ok. The truth of the gospel has to somehow continue even if just a few here and there until that great end time breakthrough comes.

I realize the Lord gets angry when ministers cause the people of God to despise his offering, so he may well take some of them out now and then. I preached many years ago that God was against Preachers flying around in their own airplanes.

How shocked I was that same night when a famous Evangelist was out flying his plane when it crashed killing him and a number of others. So I understand your zeal. I guess Im just thinking there are bigger more foundational heresies to be confronted today to make my biggest push over tithing.

Don't get me wrong I still teach on true giving when the chance comes up. I was initially stunned by the vehement way you came on toward people here. Nonetheless you are not my servant so for now anyway all I will say about it is the Lords will be done.

And yes I agree that The Churches today have more tares and heretics than saints. We must be mindful that Yeshua also said we cant pull up the tares because we may unwittingly pull up some of the wheat!

[Sean]

Brother, if the LORD tells us to do it, it is always worth it. Imagine what the great reformers of the past felt when they stood up to the religions of their day. At least they cannot PHYSICALLY silence us now. They can only preach against us. I believe the Lord gives man the Spirit to guide them into perfect truth, not vindicate their existing beliefs. An example of this is the Charismatic movement. The Apostolic movement has some heresy left over from the Dark Ages that must be shed also.

The Holy Ghost sometimes makes folks "feel" good and right with God, but the actual purpose of it is to create a hunger for God and His truth. In 1978, I was slain in the Spirit at a girlfriends house. It was not so I could keep on doing my thing, but to cause me to forsake all(including her) and follow Jesus as His disciple.

I am an extreme person, as you might have noticed..LOL

I heard a man preaching about how the German people would just sing LOUDER as the trains full of Jews went by their church on the way to the concentration camps to drown out the cries for help. He said Pentecostals do the same thing and ignore the cries of the lost. I could not take it anymore, in the middle of that message, I took my boys in the truck, went down to the local prison and started a ministry immediately.

Thats the kind of RADICAL guy I am!

[Sean]

We seem to think that revival is when folks shout the house down these days, or get into a worship frenzy while being prodded to give, but they could just be drowning out the voice of God to the church unwittingly in their ignorance!

[Steve Epley]

Non tithes would have a conference but since they are all tight wads there is no one to pay the bills.
All five of them might meet under a tree?