What Must I Do To Be Saved?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Anyway... dressing "holy" really has nothing to do with holiness.

HOWEVER!!!!! How you dress is a representation of a.) your God, b.) your church, c.) yourself. And yes it does have an impact on the Kingdom of God.

Agreed on that point! Holiness is of the heart and of your spirit, and your outward man will then express that holiness.

The cart has gotten ahead of the horse. Holiness of the heart first, and then holiness of the outward appearance will follow, as the SPIRIT of God convicts, not necessarily a particular preacher or organization.

A heart seeking after the holiness of God will manifest itself on the outside with the appropriate modest clothing.

But there is no specific scripture in the whole Bible - that I can find at least - and apparently no one else can either - that equates salvation, and/or holiness with clothing.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

For fun let's list ALL of the requirements (extra-biblical) that we must do to go heaven:

Don't go to movies,
Don't cut your hair
Don't wear make up
Don't wear jewelry
Don't wear pants (women only)
Don't wear shorts
Don't have a beard, mustache, sideburns, goatee, soul patch
Don't own a tv
Don't watch a tv
Don't watch DVDs or videos or 16 mm filmstrips
Don't listen to wurrly music
Don't go to amusement parks
Don't go to baseball games
Don't go to football games
Don't go to hockey games
Don't go to basketball games
Don't play Little League anything
Don't participate in school sports
Don't participate in any school extra curricular activities
Don't wear wedding rangs
Don't wear short sleeves
Don't wear colored chapstick

Just to name a few...

Anyone else want to add to the list?

This ones for Timmy

It depends on who you talk to. Most of the world that calls itself "Christian" would say that the following are not required for salvation:

Repent.
Be baptized in water.
Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues.

[Dordrecht]

It depends on who you talk to. Most of the world that calls itself "Christian" would say that the following are not required for salvation:

Repent.
Be baptized in water.
Receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues.

Most of the people in the western world calling themselves "christians" don't have a clue about Christianity and what a Christian really is.
It's a sad story, but you are correct!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This is very true. What is/was old is now new again, or will be soon.

By the way, the gun not withstanding, how would you know these guys were, or were not, UPC?

I thought that was funny. The guy on the left does not have a collar that I have seen on any Pentecostal preacher, but as I have not seen them all, I could not say for sure. Btw, he is a little to lax with that gun, but otherwise looks like a couple of Pentecostal men.

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Jesus... I just highlighted everything that I've done on this list.
I'm goin straight to Hell...

Anyway. The Bible says you must be born again. We throw the baby out with the bath water to our own damnation. No, man made standards can't condemn you to Hell as much as they can't save you.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE football, I go to my old high school's games, go to college games, go to pro games, and play it in my liesure time, etc. I have a TV, but don't watch it much and it stays on CNN (yes I do have personal convictions about watching what I watch). I watch movies. I wear shorts.

Just because WE (those who have been born again) have those liberties, does not mean that we neglect the born again process.

There is only one way to see and enter the Kingdom of God. That is to be born again of the water and of the spirit. I still maintain that there is only one way to be saved: repentence, water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin, and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost which will subsequently cause the believer to live a holy and sanctified life pleasing to the Lord God free from the bondage of SIN (not standards).

Just because you can wear pants and make it to heaven doesn't mean you can cheat God of what he requires. You have to deal with the issue of sin before you can make it in.

Actually, I know of a very few who would have banned everything on that list. Most would have actually have had a problem with a portion of it. There were some things on here that I have never heard anyone preach against.

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Jay, see the word highlighted in your statement - standards... exactly my point. You are trying to skirt the issue by saying this doesn't apply to you, but it does. If those things were their standards then, and there were differences of opinion back then, then we understand that Paul was trying to make something clear... do NOT judge your brother to be any less or more holy than yourself because of the "standard" he lives by.

Get my drift? It DOES apply to you and me today. The principle of what he was teaching still applies. You eat no meat, fine. I eat all meat, fine. You dress according to a certain set of standards, fine. I feel no compulsion to live by your standards, and live by the ones God gave me.. fine! Let's NOT judge one another.

That is my point! Our standards or convictions are for each of us individually, not corporately, and the more important thing at stake is - do you have love one for your brother who may not agree or do things as you do? Do you love your brother who wears a beard, or shorts or maybe even smokes.... do you love a sister who cuts her hair, and wears jewelry? Could you be eating no "meat" and thinking you are more holy than those who believe it is okay to partake of the "meat" with the principle of the verse being applied here.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

I think this scripture is one of the scriptures that speaks loudest against the clothing holiness standard movement in all the Bible - here is a new commandment given by Jesus to love one another, and BY THIS LOVE shall men know ye are my disciples, (notice he didn't say standards of separation!!!) His highest standard was love, not clothing!



Jay, could you please answer these next two questions for me. Thanks.

One: Can you give me a scripture that equates holiness, and SALVATION with clothing?

Two: Who is the world?

Actually, they established a standard to be followed by all members of all churches concerning the eating of meat offered to idols.

I will cite that the Bible defines what is seen when one is not modestly closed.

Last, the world is everyone who has not repented of their sins, been baptized in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost, and is not living a life of holiness. This list also includes all who have backslidden. None of these are optional. If a person is missing one of them (new converts do not count as they are the same as a baby in the knowledge of the things of God) they are lost.

There are many people who are somewhere in the process, and God will judge them, but this is what the Bible has said.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Jay

Actually, I know of a very few who would have banned everything on that list. Most would have actually have had a problem with a portion of it. There were some things on here that I have never heard anyone preach against.

then you have not been to a conservative church.

[Jay]

Don't go to movies,---Heard preached
Don't cut your hair---Heard preached
Don't wear make up---Heard preached
Don't wear jewelry---Heard preached (rings, bracelets, ear rings, anklets, necklaces,
etc.)
Don't wear pants (women only)---Heard preached
Don't wear shorts---Heard preached (unless swimming with guys or family in a
private pool)
Don't have a beard, mustache, sideburns, goatee, soul patch---Heard preached
Don't own a tv---Heard preached
Don't watch a tv---Heard preached
Don't watch DVDs or videos or 16 mm filmstrips---Heard preached (family home videos not necessarily opposed)
Don't listen to worldly music---Heard preached

Don't go to amusement parks---Never heard preached (water parks excepted)

Don't go to baseball games---Heard preached (all sports were actually cited)
Don't go to football games---Heard preached
Don't go to hockey games---Heard preached
Don't go to basketball games---Heard preached
Don't play Little League anything---Never heard preached in memory (can
understand the point as this takes families out
of church)
Don't participate in school sports---Heard preached
Don't participate in any school extra curricular activities---Never heard preached (inappropriate activities such as sports, theater, etc. excluded, but things such as school choir or choral were excepted)
Don't wear wedding rings---Heard preached
Don't wear short sleeves---Heard preached no shorter than quarter length, have heard sleaves to elbows, below elbows, three-quarter length
Don't wear colored chapstick---Heard preached along with all other make-up style products.

Originally Posted by Amanah

then you have not been to a conservative church.

I was raised in 'conservative churches'. However, these were churches that would have been moderate in the more 60s and 70s. With the departure of many of the deepest conservative men, these pastors and churches became the new conservative element as they never changed their positions on the issues that came up.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jay

Actually, they established a standard to be followed by all members of all churches concerning the eating of meat offered to idols..

That is true... yet, some took it a step farther, and ate no meat at all, while some felt it was okay to partake of meat as long as it wasn't offered to idols... still the same principle that I am speaking of, and hoping to express... I am not to judge my brother because he lives a different standard than I do....

Originally Posted by Jay

I will cite that the Bible defines what is seen when one is not modestly closed.

I knew you couldn't provide the specific scripture! It is just not there. However, of course the Bible teaches modesty, and covering of oneself, but if we are truly to follow God's example in clothing, then why are we not still wearing the clothing God made to cover Adam and Eve in the beginning? It was animals clothing. Should we not continue to follow the first example given? The answer of course is no, because cultures and styles change. In fact, we don't even dress today the way they did in the time of Jesus, because they all wore robes then.

So, to condemn someone to hell because he doesn't fit our bill of "holiness standards" is far and above and beyond anything the Bible teaches. Instead, what should be taught is first holiness of the heart which will then in turn clean up the outer man.

Originally Posted by Jay

Last, the world is everyone who has not repented of their sins, been baptized in Jesus' name, received the Holy Ghost, and is not living a life of holiness. This list also includes all who have backslidden. None of these are optional. If a person is missing one of them (new converts do not count as they are the same as a baby in the knowledge of the things of God) they are lost.

The world is anyone or anything who hates Jesus.

John 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


WHO HATED JESUS THE MOST? The sinners? The Romans?
I don't think so.

WHO demanded Jesus die? The sinners? The Romans?

No. The answer is those who wanted Jesus dead were the religious righteous people of that day.

THAT is who the world was to Jesus. That is who crucified Jesus. The Pharisees of the day were the highest order of people espousing a love for God. Yet they were the very ones who killed him.

And if you look at most of the persecution that goes on in the world today, nothing much has changed. Hating those who believe a little differently than you = religious persecution.

John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

John 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

May I propose to you that the WORLD of which you speak is anyone who hates, and especially anyone who hates Christ, or his brother.

We are to be separate from the "world" because of our love. NOT necessasrily because of our manner of dress or church affiliation.

Do you love your brother? Or does the "world" dwell in your heart?

John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

The world is not the sinners, because most sinners who met Jesus were changed. The world was not the Romans - because Cesaer begged the Jews not to crucify Jesus, and then washed his hands.

The WORLD was the religious right of the day who looked down on everyone who did not follow "their" laws, and were so blinded by their own traditions that they could not see Jesus as the Son of God.

Beware lest any of us fall into that same trap! By thinking that we are so holy and righteous with our high standards of living, dress, and conduct, that we fail to see Jesus and truly know HIM and love HIM.

[Steve Epley]

Thankful I was raised in a holiness church and it got into my heart as a young man and I love living the way I do'
"What's wrong with living right?"

[houston]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Thankful I was raised in a holiness church and it got into my heart as a young man and I love living the way I do'
"What's wrong with living right?"

At what age did you leave your father's church for the apostolic movement?

[ThePastorsCoach]

I hope I am not speaking out of turn here but I think at one time many years ago, David Epley was a Holiness Preacher and it was NOT Steve Epley that left anything - it was his dad that left it. I apologize if my info is not correct. SE knows that I liked and admired his father and had occasion to minister for him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Epley