A thought on tithing

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I have to disagree. The pattern was to keep the gathering of the church in a house to house venue, not evolving the meeting of the church into a revised modernist Old Testament temple/priesthood system. God instructed a place for his dwelling within the people in the Old Testament system with a priesthood hierarchy within that system, but just the opposite is taught in the New Testament system. There is no 'house of God' in which to meet any more. No 'house of God' to build, maintain and support and no priesthood system to receive tithes and offer sacrifices for the people.

Yet we see that the church has evolved into such a system, mainly because of the Romanist influence which still permiates the protestant religious system. There's instruction on the church meeting, ongiving, on christian life, on prayer, on the five fold ministry, on the operating of the gifts of the spirit.....all within the body of Christ. We have a fairly clear understanding of how the church which immediately followed Jesus operated and to attempt to add to that a form of the Old Testament system has no scriptural support.

If one were interested, I suggest doing a study on the early church. What you'll find is there was no clergy/laity building-based, 'house of God' religious or economic system until the Romanists introduced it a couple of hundred years after Christ.

The thread was on tithing and the question arose concerning if a person were to tithe, where does one pay the tithe since the Old Testament system is dead and gone to live no more. The common answer is to pay it into the 'church', but the 'church' which is receiving the tithe isn't the church of the New Testament. It's a system, introduced by the Romanists, which has attempted, very successfully I might say, to reintroduce a Old Testament religious system within the body of Christ. The tithe is used to support a building-based system where much of the financial giving is to support a building which many demand to be the biggest and best because it's falsely referred to as 'the house of God' and is used two or three times a week at best. The rest of the time this 'house of God' sits dark and unused. Along with this building-based 'house of God' system there is introduced to the real church, the assembly, a modified Old Testament priesthood system. Depending on the christian religious sect, this modified Old Testament priesthood system is presented to the real church, the body of believers, the assembly, as having the power to control them, as being a priest over them and to also receive the tithe.

Again, this isn't about not tithing or giving, this is about where to give. It's not support a man made building-based 'house of God' religious system, it's to do as is instructed in scripture. Support the ministry. Give to the widows and orphans. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked. But don't give to support a type of religious system which God destroyed 2000 years ago.

[AreYouReady?]

Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

(I Corinthians 9:14)


Let's finish this in the context it was written in.

15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.


So if a man/woman lives OF the gospel, we must take note of what Jesus says how to live when preaching the gospel.

Matthew 16:24 ¶Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you..

THIS is how Jesus described living OF the gospel.

There was never a time where Jesus told the disciples to take money. The disciples were not picked because they were businessmen, as someone here suggested. Jesus did NOT pick them for their business sense. He searched their heart for the fact that they would serve God, that they would deny themselves and pick up their cross. Except for one...who had selfish betrayal in his heart against God. Jesus knew it and picked Judas for that purpose because it was the will of God for the Lamb to be slain for the redeeming of His blood for all of our sins.

Peter - Fisherman
Andrew - Fisherman
James (the elder) - Fisherman
John - Fisherman
Matthew - Tax Collector
Simon - Political Activist

Philip - Fisherman
James (the younger) -
Judas Iscariot - Accountant
Thomas -
Thaddeus -
Bartholemew - Missionary - of noble birth
Matthias (after Judas) -

Heh. The only one who actually had any business sense was...Judas Iscariot...and we all have read what Judas did and what happened to him. And perhaps Bartholemew..who was of noble birth.

And the fact that Jesus, the Christ himself was a lowly carpenter who, when he started his ministry lived of the people who cared for him. He took no tithes...and yet ...he could have, had it been God's will for him to live like that. After all, He is after the High Priestly order of Melchizedek. Yet, Jesus chose to believe God for every need in His earthly flesh.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I've always had a problem with giving ALL of the tithes to one person when that isn't how it was done in the OT. The money was used for other purposes, but now one man gets all of that benefit. Other organizations use tithing for church purposes. When we gave in the Catholic Church, it wasn't just for the priest, it was for operating expenses of the church as well. Why don't Apostolics copy that example? Seems there would be less need for fun raising.

The church I pastor pays me a fixed salary. We operate the church with tithe monies as well, paying staff, insurance, maintenance, supplies, etc.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sarah

As for paying tithes...we can give our ten percent, or give ALL, as they did in the New Testament!

Most folks who talk about giving ALL give little or nothing. I have been around folks who talk like this all my life. The whole bunch together wouldn't give enough to rent a phone booth to have church. You would need candles for service becuase what they give would pay a $20 light bill. The "ALL givers" give nothing. God bless their stingy hearts.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by seekerman

For some the problem isn't tithing, but where to give the tithe. Abraham gave it to Melchizedek, others later gave it to the levitical priesthood, now we have a great high priest, after the order of Melchizedek to give the tithe to.

How do we pay tithes to JESUS?

We are the Body of Christ. Give to where you are attending church. I have a problem with people that week in and week out attend where I pastor, would expect a visit in the hospital when sick, will turn to our staff and congregation when there was a death or a wedding or trouble in their marriage or a loved one that needed counseling, but won't support the church financially. Some will say their money goes to some other ministry or charity, but it's really about control.

I'm saying if you are a member of a church, you should support that church. If you dont like the way finances are handled there, go somewhere where you can feel good about the financial set up. But don't attend a church simply because you grew up there, or because your friends and family go there or for whatever reason and not support it financially. It's not right.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The tithe was an agrarian land tax in ancient Israel to support the Levites. Christians didn't "tithe" in the NT. They gave as they felt led to give to meet needs. Many gave EVERYTHING for the Lord's work in the beginning. After that people began to give as they had purposed in their hearts. And yes, full time workers in the Gospel were supported. But remember, that would be supplies, clothing, travel (perhaps a horse), etc. They didn't sit pretty in a nice cushy chair on a platform receiving tithe check$ from the congregation.

Would you say that you are a pretty giving person financially?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Most folks who talk about giving ALL give little or nothing. I have been around folks who talk like this all my life. The whole bunch together wouldn't give enough to rent a phone booth to have church. You would need candles for service becuase what they give would pay a $20 light bill. The "ALL givers" give nothing. God bless their stingy hearts.

My exact observation as well. The people that argue against tithing the most or the least generous folks. They have a bigger problem with giving period, let alone tithes.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Religious tax? Lol and jacob is a poor example for tithing as well because its before the law and it was a conditional vow...the condition was that IF God blessed him...not whether He blessed him or not.

Would you consider yourself a generous financial giver as a general rule?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's funny... massive charities rely on voluntary cash and material donations. But churches don't have the faith that Christian believers will voluntarily offer cash and material donations to meet the church's needs if they are made known.

Believe me, we live by faith every week. Just because I teach and believe in tithing doesn't guarantee anyone is going to follow my lead. Where your treasure is there will your heart be. We have too many that love the music, the involvement, the ministries, the friendships, the preaching, the church family, the benefits of belonging to our church, but barely give if at all. They are also some of the folks most easily offended at the slightest provocation, the first to demand time and attention when life gets tough, the first to come asking for the church to help them because they can't pay the bills. We go ahead and serve them because we give expecting nothing in return, doing it as unto the Lord. Some of them oblige us the nothing we expect.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Most folks who talk about giving ALL give little or nothing. I have been around folks who talk like this all my life. The whole bunch together wouldn't give enough to rent a phone booth to have church. You would need candles for service becuase what they give would pay a $20 light bill. The "ALL givers" give nothing. God bless their stingy hearts.

recently a church a couple hours from here had some problems and there eventually was a split. One member and his family seemed to be the source of it. Someone who handled the money for that church mentioned to me that the offending person and his wife "were tippers and not tithers,"

I realize the "giving all" can be a copout.

I heard of one guy who said, "I don't give a tenth to my church. I do more than that. Why I bet I give a twentieth of a thirtieth."