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06-26-2012, 01:17 PM
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Okay, I think I have answered this before. I think you just disagree.
The Sabbath was made for man. Man was not made for the Sabbath.
If the rules of the Sabbath harm you, you are allowed to break them. If the rules of the Sabbath do not benefit you, you are allowed to break them.
Jesus allowed his disciples to pick corn on the Sabbath. Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. The scribes and Pharisees were all over Jesus about this.
For 19 years I tried it your way. It did not work for me. I was not made for keeping rules. The rules were made for my benefit. If the rules do not benefit me, I am out. I learned this lesson waaaaayyyyyy too late. I should have left long, long ago.
So, there is my answer.
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You still have not addressed the role of pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc that Ephesians chapter 4 says are put in your life for a reason. Why do you not need them when the Bible says you do? You are not avoiding "my way" by being unchurched. You are avoiding Gods way.
If your only response is that Sabbath analogy that is very sad. By that analogy you can just discard any part of the Bible you don't agree with or want to submit to. You are way too smart to believe that logic. That is worse logic than the pretzel logic of legalists.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Last edited by CC1; 06-26-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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06-26-2012, 10:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
You still have not addressed the role of pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc that Ephesians chapter 4 says are put in your life for a reason. Why do you not need them when the Bible says you do? You are not avoiding "my way" by being unchurched. You are avoiding Gods way.
If your only response is that Sabbath analogy that is very sad. By that analogy you can just discard any part of the Bible you don't agree with or want to submit to. You are way too smart to believe that logic. That is worse logic than the pretzel logic of legalists.
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Really, CC1. You are convinced your way is right and your way is "God's way". There is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise, so I won't bother to try. We just disagree.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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06-26-2012, 10:23 PM
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Posts: 16,848
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Really, CC1. You are convinced your way is right and your way is "God's way". There is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise, so I won't bother to try. We just disagree.
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I am not talking about my way. I am asking you to explain how you think it is ok to depart from God's way as outlined in Ephesians chapter 4 and you give an incredulous analogy that you can ignore those scriptures because Jesus violated the Sabbath.
Can you come up with a rational explanation of why Ephesians 4 does not apply to you?
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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06-27-2012, 09:07 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I am not talking about my way. I am asking you to explain how you think it is ok to depart from God's way as outlined in Ephesians chapter 4 and you give an incredulous analogy that you can ignore those scriptures because Jesus violated the Sabbath.
Can you come up with a rational explanation of why Ephesians 4 does not apply to you? |
You are assuming I agree that my explanation is irrational and I do not.
We disagree, CC1. Plain and simple.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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06-27-2012, 08:09 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
You are assuming I agree that my explanation is irrational and I do not.
We disagree, CC1. Plain and simple.
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So based on your logic I can just ignore one or more of the 10 commandments if they are uncomfortable for me since Jesus ate on the Sabbath?
I would love to have you look me in the eye and tell me that Jesus violating the Sabbath means you don't need a pastor or teacher or church in your life as Ephesians chapter 4 says you do. I have a feeling you would have a hard time doing it and if you could then you owe an apology to any Pentecostals that you have ever said used logic that didn't make sense in their belief system.
I have lost all respect for you over this amazing justification for being out of church. You ought to at least have the honesty to just say you are ignoring Gods word in that regard.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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06-28-2012, 08:36 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,617
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
So based on your logic I can just ignore one or more of the 10 commandments if they are uncomfortable for me since Jesus ate on the Sabbath?
I would love to have you look me in the eye and tell me that Jesus violating the Sabbath means you don't need a pastor or teacher or church in your life as Ephesians chapter 4 says you do. I have a feeling you would have a hard time doing it and if you could then you owe an apology to any Pentecostals that you have ever said used logic that didn't make sense in their belief system.
I have lost all respect for you over this amazing justification for being out of church. You ought to at least have the honesty to just say you are ignoring Gods word in that regard.
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06-28-2012, 09:35 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
So based on your logic I can just ignore one or more of the 10 commandments if they are uncomfortable for me since Jesus ate on the Sabbath?
I would love to have you look me in the eye and tell me that Jesus violating the Sabbath means you don't need a pastor or teacher or church in your life as Ephesians chapter 4 says you do. I have a feeling you would have a hard time doing it and if you could then you owe an apology to any Pentecostals that you have ever said used logic that didn't make sense in their belief system.
I have lost all respect for you over this amazing justification for being out of church. You ought to at least have the honesty to just say you are ignoring Gods word in that regard.
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If I have to chose between losing your respect and being abused spiritually as has been my experience in all the years I went to church, I chose losing your respect.
I'm sorry there has to be any choice at all but apparently there has to be.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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06-28-2012, 12:51 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Just Some Things I've Been Holding In
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
If I have to chose between losing your respect and being abused spiritually as has been my experience in all the years I went to church, I chose losing your respect.
I'm sorry there has to be any choice at all but apparently there has to be.
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So every single church you could attend would be "spiritual abuse"? Hogwash!
Has it ever dawned on you that if every single church is bad in your mind that maybe the problem is with you and not all the churches?
I am not diminishing the hurt and issues you had with church in your past. What I am saying is that you are using that as an excuse to not be in any church and that excuse is not biblical despite your convoluted logic regarding Jesus and the Sabbath.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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