Just Some Things I've Been Holding In

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by ILG

Okay, I think I have answered this before. I think you just disagree.

The Sabbath was made for man. Man was not made for the Sabbath.

If the rules of the Sabbath harm you, you are allowed to break them. If the rules of the Sabbath do not benefit you, you are allowed to break them.

Jesus allowed his disciples to pick corn on the Sabbath. Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath. The scribes and Pharisees were all over Jesus about this.

For 19 years I tried it your way. It did not work for me. I was not made for keeping rules. The rules were made for my benefit. If the rules do not benefit me, I am out. I learned this lesson waaaaayyyyyy too late. I should have left long, long ago.

So, there is my answer.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I don't see Ephesians 4:11-16 working in many of the Oneness churches. If this were happening, then people would be entering in as babes, maturing and then leaving out to preach, witness and evangelize and the churches would be growing larger.

Instead, when a church becomes a corporation, it tries to stop loss of income. Christ's body is supposed to be a free living breathing organism...thriving and beckoning others to join the bride. Instead, the church is being bogged down with mortgages, interest, insurance and other ropes and chains to bind it with so it is enslaved to the financial system.

Obeying a pastor is quenching the Holy Ghost in many many cases and stifling the growth of the church because we have little ant hill kingdoms instead of a unified body of Christ.

Too many churches that are bitter enemies.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I spose that's gonna be limited to your def of church, too...

We are the Church...

Origin:
1570–80; < Latin < Greek ekklēsía assembly, equivalent to ékklēt ( os ) summoned ( ek- ec- + klē-, variant of kal-, stem of kaleîn to call, + -tos past participle suffix) + -ia -ia

All who are Born Again, as the Scripture hath said, are called, summoned.

In order that we might not just run around with our own little agenda and whatnot, God designed that there be pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets in this called out Body.

This "assembling together," be it an edifice built specifically for this purpose, a dining room in your home, or a brush arbor, is often called "church."

But it is not THE Church...we are THE Church.

The place where we assemble is simply a place we have set aside for prayer, instruction, edification, giving, and fellowship of like minded disciples of Christ.

It is all scriptural, and CCI is absolutely right in this...assembling together and pastors, etc. is all scriptural.

To say otherwise is to pick and choose which part of truth we will embrace.

I am deeply sorry that many have been wounded by those who sought to follow their own way rather than the Word of God, or by those who lacked the love of God in administration.

Trust me when I say that I have horror stories in my family, and as I write, there is an ongoing issue that I am dealing with...NOT with my church or pastor!!!!

So I DO understand, but with all that is going on, I must remember that God's plan for the Church...the summoned and called, has not changed just because charlatans raise their ugly head.

God's Word stands as strong and true and right today as it did when the first century saints first read those letters of instruction.

I still be believe in the Church and I believe in her worth. If that involves having a pastor and attending services/meetings, I am honored to do so.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by CC1

So based on your logic I can just ignore one or more of the 10 commandments if they are uncomfortable for me since Jesus ate on the Sabbath?

I would love to have you look me in the eye and tell me that Jesus violating the Sabbath means you don't need a pastor or teacher or church in your life as Ephesians chapter 4 says you do. I have a feeling you would have a hard time doing it and if you could then you owe an apology to any Pentecostals that you have ever said used logic that didn't make sense in their belief system.

I have lost all respect for you over this amazing justification for being out of church. You ought to at least have the honesty to just say you are ignoring Gods word in that regard.

I'd like to just ignore for now that you guys are arguing about three diff subjects, and point out that

"It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up"

in no way means that what you mostly have today for these offices conforms to Christ's ideal here. Or that your very best vision of one of these offices would, either. David Byrne is my personal evangelist, how do you like that? We obv collectively have little or no clue what "church" even is, so I'm not sure how one might condemn another for being out of it? By church, you mean that building you owe money on, when I am ILG's Church, and ILG is all I need, in a sense, for Church.

[Cindy]

Good grief, you have got to be kidding me.

I have had enough of the UPC, pastors, preachers, teachers, people, bashing on this forum. Personal accountability matters. Quit blaming your problems on others and take responsibility for your spiritual problems.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Good grief, you have got to be kidding me.

I have had enough of the UPC, pastors, preachers, teachers, people, bashing on this forum. Personal accountability matters. Quit blaming your problems on others and take responsibility for your spiritual problems.

And while you're at it, re-read the rules of this forum.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Barb

We are the Church...

Origin:
1570–80; < Latin < Greek ekklēsía assembly, equivalent to ékklēt ( os ) summoned ( ek- ec- + klē-, variant of kal-, stem of kaleîn to call, + -tos past participle suffix) + -ia -ia

All who are Born Again, as the Scripture hath said, are called, summoned.

In order that we might not just run around with our own little agenda and whatnot, God designed that there be pastors, teachers, apostles, prophets in this called out Body.

This "assembling together," be it an edifice built specifically for this purpose, a dining room in your home, or a brush arbor, is often called "church."

But it is not THE Church...we are THE Church.

The place where we assemble is simply a place we have set aside for prayer, instruction, edification, giving, and fellowship of like minded disciples of Christ.

It is all scriptural, and CCI is absolutely right in this...assembling together and pastors, etc. is all scriptural.

To say otherwise is to pick and choose which part of truth we will embrace.

I am deeply sorry that many have been wounded by those who sought to follow their own way rather than the Word of God, or by those who lacked the love of God in administration.

Trust me when I say that I have horror stories in my family, and as I write, there is an ongoing issue that I am dealing with...NOT with my church or pastor!!!!

So I DO understand, but with all that is going on, I must remember that God's plan for the Church...the summoned and called, has not changed just because charlatans raise their ugly head.

God's Word stands as strong and true and right today as it did when the first century saints first read those letters of instruction.

I still be believe in the Church and I believe in her worth. If that involves having a pastor and attending services/meetings, I am honored to do so.

Amen, although that surely just convinces you that I'm a schizo. I guess I have just been really lucky with Pastors--never had any of the problems described. Actually, I'm convinced that that is because I never worshipped any of them, knew that they were just men, and peoples' premises are for some reason transparent to me.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

So based on your logic I can just ignore one or more of the 10 commandments if they are uncomfortable for me since Jesus ate on the Sabbath?

I would love to have you look me in the eye and tell me that Jesus violating the Sabbath means you don't need a pastor or teacher or church in your life as Ephesians chapter 4 says you do. I have a feeling you would have a hard time doing it and if you could then you owe an apology to any Pentecostals that you have ever said used logic that didn't make sense in their belief system.

I have lost all respect for you over this amazing justification for being out of church. You ought to at least have the honesty to just say you are ignoring Gods word in that regard.

If I have to chose between losing your respect and being abused spiritually as has been my experience in all the years I went to church, I chose losing your respect.

I'm sorry there has to be any choice at all but apparently there has to be.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Cindy

Good grief, you have got to be kidding me.

I have had enough of the UPC, pastors, preachers, teachers, people, bashing on this forum. Personal accountability matters. Quit blaming your problems on others and take responsibility for your spiritual problems.

Originally Posted by Cindy

And while you're at it, re-read the rules of this forum.

[ILG]

Maybe I should just leave.