Tulsa Report Day 2

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Bro. Ferd,

There have been issues all along. I'll give you that. However, as one that has travelled extensively throughout our fellowship I have to tell you that there has been a HUGE paradigm shift in some Pentecostal Churches over the last 10 years or so. That has become more 'in your face' over the last several years and now it's almost unbelievable that some still call themselves Pentecostal.

I remember back 15 to 20 years ago that when you saw really short skirts, much makeup or extensive jewelry it was generally relegated to two or three Churches who just didn't make an issue of 'standards' and, perhaps, a handfull of new converts. I think it was accepted that some Churches were 'worldly' and they were the exception.

Now, however, there are some environments that I go to that makes you wonder how they went from the epitome of looking Apostolic to... well... what they have become. At the risk of this becoming a 'standards' thread I think the general attitude has now gone from accepting that 'they are the worldly minority' to realizing that certain environments are moving completely away from the distinctives that set us apart.

This brings me to another point. I'm guessing that you'll see MANY more people making the 'Tulsa' move from certain districts than from others. It will be predicated on some who are in districts that say, "I just can't keep supporting the direction they are going" while in other districts there won't be many who leave because, bottom line, they don't see the trend of moving away from those Pentecostal distinctives.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that if I were in certain districts that I've preached meetings in I would have been the first one in Tulsa. Thankfully, in my area the majority (NOT ALL) of our Churches pretty much still value those distinctives of separation.

NOW, as to the bigger question: Why is television advertising the straw that broke the camels back? I have to be honest... I'm just not sure. But I can tell you that after being licensed for 27 years that television has always been a 'hot button' topic. I'm granting the liberty to those who say they hate the dangers of Hollywood to believe them. I preach against it as well and, as far as I know, don't have one television in my Church. However, I personally think that within the organization there is another factor that plays into the equation.

Mark Hanby was THE preacher of his day. He was looked up to and revered by most everyone. When he tried to push television in years ago and was denied... he bailed out. I could be 1,000 miles off base but I've always thought that there was a little resentment over the fact that a 'star' among us left for a television program.

His program eventually failed and he seems to have made his share of miserable mistakes. Even so, I think that the movement, pretty much as a whole, was offended by the whole issue 'I'm a 'star' and I'm pushing television' - combined with the fact that he bailed out - that for years when television is mentioned it immediately found deep emotional opposition.

Again, I may be 1,000 miles off base with my suppositions but, at least I'm honest enough to say it is only a supposition.

Steadfast...is the above your only Gospel? I agree with you about a steady erosion of traditional holiness standards. And, in a measure, that is also disturbing to me. However, this perceived erosion has caused me to examine my PERSONAL convictions to ensure I am not simply following traditionism.

For some time now, I have decided to teach and preach - now don't be shocked - what is IN the Bible. Not what I WANT or WISH was IN the Bible! So, I minister to individuals and churches from His Word. I teach specifics and principles, but I do not teach against things that are not in the Word. Neither do I subtract from His Word - preaching His Word without fear or favorj - I keep a clean conscience by staying within His Word and Statutes.

Does any of this make sense?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Steadfast...is the above your only Gospel? I agree with you about a steady erosion of traditional holiness standards. And, in a measure, that is also disturbing to me. However, this perceived erosion has caused me to examine my PERSONAL convictions to ensure I am not simply following traditionism.

For some time now, I have decided to teach and preach - now don't be shocked - what is IN the Bible. Not what I WANT or WISH was IN the Bible! So, I minister to individuals and churches from His Word. I teach specifics and principles, but I do not teach against things that are not in the Word. Neither do I subtract from His Word - preaching His Word without fear or favorj - I keep a clean conscience by staying within His Word and Statutes.

Does any of this make sense?

I know some who do the same thing but they no longer place emphasis on Holy Ghost baptism and speaking in tongues.

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I know some who do the same thing but they no longer place emphasis on Holy Ghost baptism and speaking in tongues.

I understand...I then must emphasize again that I preach what is IN the WORD...

repentance, water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ, the infilling of the Holy Ghost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues... and living a godly and holy life in this present world...I do preach and teach, same!

Ok?

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

I understand...I then must emphasize again that I preach what is IN the WORD...

repentance, water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ, the infilling of the Holy Ghost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues... and living a godly and holy life in this present world...I do preach and teach, same!

Ok?

oops....I should have know better that he would be quick to defend himself

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I know some who do the same thing but they no longer place emphasis on Holy Ghost baptism and speaking in tongues.

I can assure you, Felicity, that RevBuddy is not talking about leaving the roots of salvation as is prescribed in Acts. I think we all agree thats still IN there.

[StMark]

Steadfast,

Do you know everything that goes on in every church that you preach in?
what you see with the natural eye might be one thing but what about those things that are hidden and cannot be seen with our 5 natural senses?

I'm not trying to start a war here but I do know that some of the strictest churches out here has had a lot of problems too. now,If you was to go and preach,everything would have LOOKED fine.

My point is,why don't we trust God to be God and let him seperate the wheat from the tares? why don't we let the pastors deal with it and not make our problem?

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Steadfast...is the above your only Gospel? I agree with you about a steady erosion of traditional holiness standards. And, in a measure, that is also disturbing to me. However, this perceived erosion has caused me to examine my PERSONAL convictions to ensure I am not simply following traditionism.

For some time now, I have decided to teach and preach - now don't be shocked - what is IN the Bible. Not what I WANT or WISH was IN the Bible! So, I minister to individuals and churches from His Word. I teach specifics and principles, but I do not teach against things that are not in the Word. Neither do I subtract from His Word - preaching His Word without fear or favorj - I keep a clean conscience by staying within His Word and Statutes.

Does any of this make sense?

"Is the above your only gospel?"

I find the quesiton humorous and a telling hint that you obviously have no clue about my ministry. The Church I lead testifies about the balance and doctrinal purity I try to maintain in my congregation.

But, rather than defend what I am and what my ministry is built around I'll just let some of those on here who have been to my Church 'qualify' it for you.

Using your own post I could well twist your words to surmise that "If it's not spelled out in the Bible then you have no business preaching about it." To this I could respond in kind and say, "Is that your only gospel?" because, if so, then that would put us in a hard spot as it pertains to such things as crack cocaine, child pornography, internet sex chat rooms and many other things.

The difference? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that your 'gospel' is bigger and more balanced than what you can list in one post.

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

"Is the above your only gospel?"

I find the quesiton humorous and a telling hint that you obviously have no clue about my ministry. The Church I lead testifies about the balance and doctrinal purity I try to maintain in my congregation.

But, rather than defend what I am and what my ministry is built around I'll just let some of those on here who have been to my Church 'qualify' it for you.

Using your own post I could well twist your words to surmise that "If it's not spelled out in the Bible then you have no business preaching about it." To this I could respond in kind and say, "Is that your only gospel?" because, if so, then that would put us in a hard spot as it pertains to such things as crack cocaine, child pornography, internet sex chat rooms and many other things.

The difference? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that your 'gospel' is bigger and more balanced than what you can list in one post.

Don't be so combative...you're misinterpreting my posts...I must do a better job of explaining myself...

However, I do believe that I must exercise care in preaching and teaching, first the Gospel of Jesus Christ and then, the clear principles and specifics given to us by the Apostle Paul.

Believe me, I am not trying to escape preaching a tenet of the Bible, but you and I do differ on my ministerial responsibilities...and again, I am not trying to interpret your posts negative...I really am not.

If you mean that by only preaching what is in the Bible, I am not preaching His Word fully, then help me - tell me what I must be preaching that I'm not.

By the way, you're absolutely right - I don't know you or your ministry or your church...I'm just having a conversation with you about these issues...