Tulsa Report Day 2

Originally Posted by Ferd

I really shouldnt but it here.... but....


Steadfast, my only issue with this line is, these same issues have been "the issues" since 1945.

the UPCI has had men going to meetings and seeing liberals in the camp from day one.

more than once, some group of men have left the UPCI because it was too liberal, yet the UPCI seems to still be filled with men who range from one side the other.

how come these guys just now got their gut full? i just dont get that.

Bro. Ferd,

There have been issues all along. I'll give you that. However, as one that has travelled extensively throughout our fellowship I have to tell you that there has been a HUGE paradigm shift in some Pentecostal Churches over the last 10 years or so. That has become more 'in your face' over the last several years and now it's almost unbelievable that some still call themselves Pentecostal.

I remember back 15 to 20 years ago that when you saw really short skirts, much makeup or extensive jewelry it was generally relegated to two or three Churches who just didn't make an issue of 'standards' and, perhaps, a handfull of new converts. I think it was accepted that some Churches were 'worldly' and they were the exception.

Now, however, there are some environments that I go to that makes you wonder how they went from the epitome of looking Apostolic to... well... what they have become. At the risk of this becoming a 'standards' thread I think the general attitude has now gone from accepting that 'they are the worldly minority' to realizing that certain environments are moving completely away from the distinctives that set us apart.

This brings me to another point. I'm guessing that you'll see MANY more people making the 'Tulsa' move from certain districts than from others. It will be predicated on some who are in districts that say, "I just can't keep supporting the direction they are going" while in other districts there won't be many who leave because, bottom line, they don't see the trend of moving away from those Pentecostal distinctives.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that if I were in certain districts that I've preached meetings in I would have been the first one in Tulsa. Thankfully, in my area the majority (NOT ALL) of our Churches pretty much still value those distinctives of separation.

NOW, as to the bigger question: Why is television advertising the straw that broke the camels back? I have to be honest... I'm just not sure. But I can tell you that after being licensed for 27 years that television has always been a 'hot button' topic. I'm granting the liberty to those who say they hate the dangers of Hollywood to believe them. I preach against it as well and, as far as I know, don't have one television in my Church. However, I personally think that within the organization there is another factor that plays into the equation.

Mark Hanby was THE preacher of his day. He was looked up to and revered by most everyone. When he tried to push television in years ago and was denied... he bailed out. I could be 1,000 miles off base but I've always thought that there was a little resentment over the fact that a 'star' among us left for a television program.

His program eventually failed and he seems to have made his share of miserable mistakes. Even so, I think that the movement, pretty much as a whole, was offended by the whole issue 'I'm a 'star' and I'm pushing television' - combined with the fact that he bailed out - that for years when television is mentioned it immediately found deep emotional opposition.

Again, I may be 1,000 miles off base with my suppositions but, at least I'm honest enough to say it is only a supposition.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

I HATE the liberal/conserative label.........I remember at one time in my life God even blessed us to help put on a meeting that was considered on the conserative side - but even there I would find men who would ask - ........ What are you doing here?........as in I was way to liberal to be there........

Then a few weeks later I visited a different conference and was ask ........ What are you doing here?........as in Dude you are WAYYYY to conserative to be here......

This really bothered me and so I took it to the Lord in prayer...........while I was traveling home from the second conference (and some may not believe this part) I felt the power of God come into the car and so I ask Him.........God what am I to do.........These guys think I am a liberal.....these others think I am too conserative........then I ask, God Where Am I?????????

I felt the power of God and then I felt a voice speak to me.......and HE said........Just stay in the shadow of the cross.......

Being the IAM that I am I argued.......but what about those on the left who feel I am one way and those on the right who feel I am another........what about them.........Then the answer came......If I am in the shadow of the Cross then those on the left are on the left of the cross and those on the right are on the right and neither one is in the shadow of the Cross........

So from that day on.......I will never try to impress you with how Holy or Liberal I am........I just want to do His will, be saved, and see my family saved and there be a church built in Longview Texas for the Glory of the Kingdom of God.........

And my friend other than that.......... NOTHING else matters............

Excellent!!!!

God DOES know what he's talking about, doesn't he?

[StMark]

Originally Posted by TRIPLE E

They are in the North East now!

ooops! I had no idea that Felicity moved back to NB.
I hear that it's the bible belt of canada - now, have i redeemed myself?lol

[TRIPLE E]

Originally Posted by StMark

ooops! I had no idea that Felicity moved back to NB.
I hear that it's the bible belt of canada - now, have i redeemed myself?lol

Almost thou persuadest me that you are sincere!

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Bro. Ferd,

There have been issues all along. I'll give you that. However, as one that has travelled extensively throughout our fellowship I have to tell you that there has been a HUGE paradigm shift in some Pentecostal Churches over the last 10 years or so. That has become more 'in your face' over the last several years and now it's almost unbelievable that some still call themselves Pentecostal.

I remember back 15 to 20 years ago that when you saw really short skirts, much makeup or extensive jewelry it was generally relegated to two or three Churches who just didn't make an issue of 'standards' and, perhaps, a handfull of new converts. I think it was accepted that some Churches were 'worldly' and they were the exception.

Now, however, there are some environments that I go to that makes you wonder how they went from the epitome of looking Apostolic to... well... what they have become. At the risk of this becoming a 'standards' thread I think the general attitude has now gone from accepting that 'they are the worldly minority' to realizing that certain environments are moving completely away from the distinctives that set us apart.

This brings me to another point. I'm guessing that you'll see MANY more people making the 'Tulsa' move from certain districts than from others. It will be predicated on some who are in districts that say, "I just can't keep supporting the direction they are going" while in other districts there won't be many who leave because, bottom line, they don't see the trend of moving away from those Pentecostal distinctives.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that if I were in certain districts that I've preached meetings in I would have been the first one in Tulsa. Thankfully, in my area the majority (NOT ALL) of our Churches pretty much still value those distinctives of separation.

NOW, as to the bigger question: Why is television advertising the straw that broke the camels back? I have to be honest... I'm just not sure. But I can tell you that after being licensed for 27 years that television has always been a 'hot button' topic. I'm granting the liberty to those who say they hate the dangers of Hollywood to believe them. I preach against it as well and, as far as I know, don't have one television in my Church. However, I personally think that within the organization there is another factor that plays into the equation.

Mark Hanby was THE preacher of his day. He was looked up to and revered by most everyone. When he tried to push television in years ago and was denied... he bailed out. I could be 1,000 miles off base but I've always thought that there was a little resentment over the fact that a 'star' among us left for a television program.

His program eventually failed and he seems to have made his share of miserable mistakes. Even so, I think that the movement, pretty much as a whole, was offended by the whole issue 'I'm a 'star' and I'm pushing television' - combined with the fact that he bailed out - that for years when television is mentioned it immediately found deep emotional opposition.

Again, I may be 1,000 miles off base with my suppositions but, at least I'm honest enough to say it is only a supposition.

Steadfast...is the above your only Gospel? I agree with you about a steady erosion of traditional holiness standards. And, in a measure, that is also disturbing to me. However, this perceived erosion has caused me to examine my PERSONAL convictions to ensure I am not simply following traditionism.

For some time now, I have decided to teach and preach - now don't be shocked - what is IN the Bible. Not what I WANT or WISH was IN the Bible! So, I minister to individuals and churches from His Word. I teach specifics and principles, but I do not teach against things that are not in the Word. Neither do I subtract from His Word - preaching His Word without fear or favorj - I keep a clean conscience by staying within His Word and Statutes.

Does any of this make sense?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Steadfast...is the above your only Gospel? I agree with you about a steady erosion of traditional holiness standards. And, in a measure, that is also disturbing to me. However, this perceived erosion has caused me to examine my PERSONAL convictions to ensure I am not simply following traditionism.

For some time now, I have decided to teach and preach - now don't be shocked - what is IN the Bible. Not what I WANT or WISH was IN the Bible! So, I minister to individuals and churches from His Word. I teach specifics and principles, but I do not teach against things that are not in the Word. Neither do I subtract from His Word - preaching His Word without fear or favorj - I keep a clean conscience by staying within His Word and Statutes.

Does any of this make sense?

I know some who do the same thing but they no longer place emphasis on Holy Ghost baptism and speaking in tongues.

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Bro. Ferd,

There have been issues all along. I'll give you that. However, as one that has travelled extensively throughout our fellowship I have to tell you that there has been a HUGE paradigm shift in some Pentecostal Churches over the last 10 years or so. That has become more 'in your face' over the last several years and now it's almost unbelievable that some still call themselves Pentecostal.

I remember back 15 to 20 years ago that when you saw really short skirts, much makeup or extensive jewelry it was generally relegated to two or three Churches who just didn't make an issue of 'standards' and, perhaps, a handfull of new converts. I think it was accepted that some Churches were 'worldly' and they were the exception.

Now, however, there are some environments that I go to that makes you wonder how they went from the epitome of looking Apostolic to... well... what they have become. At the risk of this becoming a 'standards' thread I think the general attitude has now gone from accepting that 'they are the worldly minority' to realizing that certain environments are moving completely away from the distinctives that set us apart.

This brings me to another point. I'm guessing that you'll see MANY more people making the 'Tulsa' move from certain districts than from others. It will be predicated on some who are in districts that say, "I just can't keep supporting the direction they are going" while in other districts there won't be many who leave because, bottom line, they don't see the trend of moving away from those Pentecostal distinctives.

I can tell you, without a doubt, that if I were in certain districts that I've preached meetings in I would have been the first one in Tulsa. Thankfully, in my area the majority (NOT ALL) of our Churches pretty much still value those distinctives of separation.

NOW, as to the bigger question: Why is television advertising the straw that broke the camels back? I have to be honest... I'm just not sure. But I can tell you that after being licensed for 27 years that television has always been a 'hot button' topic. I'm granting the liberty to those who say they hate the dangers of Hollywood to believe them. I preach against it as well and, as far as I know, don't have one television in my Church. However, I personally think that within the organization there is another factor that plays into the equation.

Mark Hanby was THE preacher of his day. He was looked up to and revered by most everyone. When he tried to push television in years ago and was denied... he bailed out. I could be 1,000 miles off base but I've always thought that there was a little resentment over the fact that a 'star' among us left for a television program.

His program eventually failed and he seems to have made his share of miserable mistakes. Even so, I think that the movement, pretty much as a whole, was offended by the whole issue 'I'm a 'star' and I'm pushing television' - combined with the fact that he bailed out - that for years when television is mentioned it immediately found deep emotional opposition.

Again, I may be 1,000 miles off base with my suppositions but, at least I'm honest enough to say it is only a supposition.

Really! I am not being sarcastic in the least. But this is not an easy thing to achieve in today's Pentecost.

[StMark]

Steadfast,

Do you know everything that goes on in every church that you preach in?
what you see with the natural eye might be one thing but what about those things that are hidden and cannot be seen with our 5 natural senses?

I'm not trying to start a war here but I do know that some of the strictest churches out here has had a lot of problems too. now,If you was to go and preach,everything would have LOOKED fine.

My point is,why don't we trust God to be God and let him seperate the wheat from the tares? why don't we let the pastors deal with it and not make our problem?

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I know some who do the same thing but they no longer place emphasis on Holy Ghost baptism and speaking in tongues.

I understand...I then must emphasize again that I preach what is IN the WORD...

repentance, water baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ, the infilling of the Holy Ghost by the evidence of speaking with other tongues... and living a godly and holy life in this present world...I do preach and teach, same!

Ok?

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I know some who do the same thing but they no longer place emphasis on Holy Ghost baptism and speaking in tongues.

I can assure you, Felicity, that RevBuddy is not talking about leaving the roots of salvation as is prescribed in Acts. I think we all agree thats still IN there.