The Name

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

The name of Jesus denotes his Sonship and his dying on the Cross.

If you put the name of Jesus into Isaiah chapter 12:2

It reads Behold God is my salvation - (Joshua- Hebrew) (Jesus in Greek), I will trust , and not be afraid. for the Lord JEHOVAH is my strength and my song and he also had become by salvation - (Joshua-Hebrew) (Jesus - In Greek).

Verse 4 And in that day shall ye say, Praise the Lord call upon "his" name (Jesus), declare his (Jesus) doings among the people make mention that his name (Jesus) is exalted.

To connect that to Paul in the New testement,

Act 4:12 Neither is their salvation (There is that word again from Isaiah 12) in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men , whereby we must be saved.

To use the name JHWH or Jehovah or does not denote the crucified power...

Nathan Eckstadt

I appreciate your respectful tone in presenting your thoughts here.

I see your point 100% and agree with you.

One question though... the thread was started concerning those who would criticize one for using the term Yeshua (or any other possibly more correct version).

The term I was speaking of was not Jehovah but was, instead the very term you speak of meaning.. Jehovah has become our salvation.

The term I was speaking of was not that of Jehovah and I fully understand and appreciate your reasons for not substituting Jehovah for Jesus.

Somewhere we are not understanding what each other is saying it could full well be me... if you could help us get on the same page here it would be appreciated.

[SDG]

Second ... what say ye of those who believe that unless the baptizer does not recite the right phraseology ... the blood of Jesus is not applied in the waters of baptism and remission does not take place? I have heard this used? What say ye?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Second ... what say ye of those who believe that unless the baptizer does not recite the right phraseology ... the blood of Jesus is not applied in the waters of baptism and remission does not take place? I have heard this use? What say ye?

In the issue of titles versus name.. this is what I have been taught.

This is not something I am sure of but all that I do I must do of faith and I would have doubt if I called the titles.

I have faith when I call on the name.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Second ... what say ye of those who believe that unless the baptizer does not recite the right phraseology ... the blood of Jesus is not applied in the waters of baptism and remission does not take place? I have heard this use? What say ye?

my understanding leaves the baptiser to only officiate in the manner that Phillip did for the enuch.

It is the one being baptised who calls upon the name of the one who died for him.

Paul did not die for him [the one being baptised in water].

My faith (enabled by hearing the word preached) is made alive when I follow that hearing with my works being in agreement with the hearing of God's command.

My now, living, faith imputes righteousness.

Dead faith does not impute righteousness.

So calling upon the titles of Father and son and Holy Ghost seems to deny the hearing of the scriptural witness pertaining to the name of the one who died as my propitiation; the one whose name has dominion to reconcile my debt is the one whose name I should be baptised.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by tbpew

my understanding leaves the baptiser to only officiate in the manner that Phillip did for the enuch.

It is the one being baptised who calls upon the name of the one who died for him.

Paul did not die for him [the one being baptised in water].

My faith (enabled by hearing the word preached) is made alive when I follow that hearing with my works being in agreement with the hearing of God's command.

My now, living, faith imputes righteousness.

Dead faith does not impute righteousness.

So calling upon the titles of Father and son and Holy Ghost seems to deny the hearing of the scriptural witness pertaining to the name of the one who died as my propitiation; the one whose name has dominion to reconcile my debt is the one whose name I should be baptised.

Not to be facecious ... TB ... but this is a serious question based on what you have stated:

So the person officiating the baptism recites ... in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ... while the person being baptized calls out 'in the name of Jesus' the baptism is now valid?

I do understand you point of obedience .... however ... many who are baptized in the titles have not heard our message and believe they are being obedient to direct command of Jesus.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Not to be facecious ... TB ... but this is a serious question based on what you have stated:

So the person officiating the baptism recites ... in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost ... while the person being baptized calls out 'in the name of Jesus' the baptism is now valid?
I do understand you point of obedience .... however ... but many wh are baptized in the titles have not heard our message and believe they are being obedient to direct command of Jesus.

The part I highlighted is what I am responding to, assuming that is the core aspect of my post you are responding to.

I would say 'YES'; a person who calls upon the name of the one who died for them (Jesus) from the waters of baptism has followed their faith into the works of obedience and identification with their savior.

Any one who attempts to imagine all the subtleties that can nullify the spiritual separation from sin's bondage that occurs in the waters of baptism, based on the circumstance of the one facilitating or administering in the act, has an infinite number of latent sources for doubt and unbelief.

Water baptism is a God thing not a priest thing. Priest's can officiate and be a blessing in the operation of their giftings but what transpires is between the one seeking to be baptized in water and the one who died for them.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
What Steve and AB are promoting is that I or "we" only use the name Jesus. So should the Jews ONLY use Yeshua? Should they be reproved if they would like to at times call Yeshua Jesus?

I do not make threads to try to pressure anyone to use Yeshua. But to me it is a wonderful thing to know the original name that Gabriel brought down from Heaven and commanded Mary to name her Son.

To me this is part of the Spirit guiding us into all truth.

I assume my stance is known since this is the whole jest of the thread. (of course many took it differently but it was my purpose nonetheless)

I do not see why anyone shouldn't be free to express that name as Yeshua if that is what they would like to do so.

I am aware (contrary to what some apparently believe) that Jesus is the english expression of the name. I just don't understand why anyone would feel compelled to condemn others for using anything other than the english rendition.

As you said... you don't compel anyone else to do this... it is simply the way you have chosen to express it and I see no reason why anyone should want to condemn you for that.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I assume my stance is known since this is the whole jest of the thread. (of course many took it differently but it was my purpose nonetheless)

I do not see why anyone shouldn't be free to express that name as Yeshua if that is what they would like to do so.

I am aware (contrary to what some apparently believe) that Jesus is the english expression of the name. I just don't understand why anyone would feel compelled to condemn others for using anything other than the english rendition.

As you said... you don't compel anyone else to do this... it is simply the way you have chosen to express it and I see no reason why anyone should want to condemn you for that.

I am confident D4T meant gist not jest!

I ask Micheal again, do you believe that sounding the name given to the only begotten son of God (by inheritance) is more effective if spoken with the same sound that Joseph heard when visited by an angel of God?

I was not aware of what you said pertaining to what AB said. I did not think he was indicating contrary to any sound that a person speaks in a language of their understanding. I heard it pretty plainly that, English speaking (or any native tongue/language) has all the same efficacy as any one speaking the saving name of YHVH in Hebrew.

Please Micheal, do you feel the non-Hebraic sounding of the name of God in salvation is any less effective or any less obedient to scriptures if spoken in any other sound then that which would be spoken in the Hebrew tongue?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I am confident D4T meant gist not jest!

LOL... thanks bro..

I always get those mixed up.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I am confident D4T meant gist not jest!

I ask Micheal again, do you believe that sounding the name given to the only begotten son of God (by inheritance) is more effective if spoken with the same sound that Joseph heard when visited by an angel of God?

I was not aware of what you said pertaining to what AB said. I did not think he was indicating contrary to any sound that a person speaks in a language of their understanding. I heard it pretty plainly that, English speaking (or any native tongue/language) has all the same efficacy as any one speaking the saving name of YHVH in Hebrew.

Please Micheal, do you feel the non-Hebraic sounding of the name of God in salvation is any less effective or any less obedient to scriptures if spoken in any other sound then that which would be spoken in the Hebrew tongue?

It seems to me this is going nowhere fast. If AB did not seem to be censoring the use of Yeshua then I must be getting old and losing what discernment I thought I had. I think I have made my position clear from what I have said.

As far as those things I believe here is my statement of faith complete and unabridged from my web site. It is divided into what I believe is foundational and what is important but perhaps NOT foundational.


1. There is One God the creator of all things

2. In Old Testament times God revealed himself to creation through the Angel of YHWH.

3. The WORD written of by John in his gospel was the Angel of YHWH. This was not another person of God but YHWH HIMSELF in Angelic form.

4. The WORD was made flesh as Gods son Jesus or Yeshua in Hebrew which was his own nationality.

5. Jesus lived without sin. He taught the truth from the Almighty. His death was a sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

6. He rose again the third day.

7. He now exists as God (YHWH) and at the same time as God manifested in the flesh the Son of God.

8. The basic original plan of salvation is Repent and be baptized every one in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

9. To be a disciple one must take up the cross and deny self following Jesus.

10. Grace is Gods favor (kindness) to individuals enabling their salvation.

11. Gifts of the Spirit are real and signs follow those who believe.

12. Biblical perfection manifested by the fruits of the Spirit and obedience to the commands of Jesus.

13. The Post Tribulation rapture.

14. The dead in Christ are given immortality even eternal life at the resurrection not at their death.

15. There are coming new Heavens and a new Earth.

16. The unbelieving and disobedient will be destroyed in Gods time in the Lake of Fire.

Here are other things I believe that do not rise to the same level of importance as 1-16.

The Mt. Sinai Covenant (law of Moses) is abolished. The disciples of Jesus are under his New Covenant

Plurality of Elders

Body ministry

Women may labor in the gospel but may not be in Eldership

Women are to cover their heads while praying or prophesying in the Assembly

Marriage is to be entered into as a once in a lifetime covenant.

This covenant is broken only by the act of fornication or desertion by an unbelieving partner

Many times I use transliterations from Hebrew when speaking of Jesus (Yeshua) or God (YHWH, YAH, or ADONAI). It should not be assumed I do not honor the English version of the name "Jesus". I honor it as the greatest name in the English tongue. I also believe that Jesus/Yeshua is honored when he is called by the name he was given by the Father at his birth in the Hebrew tongue.