Its very easy for both, Christ did all the work. It is men in the name of religion that has made it hard. There have been many unnecessary obstacles placed between the sinner and the cross.
I had to do nothing but be born to become a sinner. Adam did all the work. But according to religion I have to do this and that and jump through all kinds of hoops to be saved. Not so, the second Adam(Jesus) did the work.
so your saying we have to do nothing to stay saved? salvation was purchased by JESUS and his blood ,,,..we have to be born again of water and spirit to enter into the kingdom which is the free gift of god ,, but we must receive it . JESUS SAID if you love me keep my commandments ,, so there is something we must do..
And yet...
"... the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
To "stay saved" I don't even "have to" breath! The very life that I live is by the faith of Jesus Christ! I literally don't "have to do" anything.
... that is, I don't have to do anything but ask myself, "How can I possibly thank Him for all He's done?" I think that when we answer that, the living really starts.
Michlow, did you consider that when you departed from "the faith" after being disillusioned with what claimed to give you the peace and abundant life you desired, did you stop to think you were handed a false version and try to search the Word yourself to find the true? Or did you abandon all attempts?
I think of how Mormons and JW's are so brainwashed about their cult being the only real church in the world, that when people are disillusioned and leave they will not dare check another church out since they still retain that derogatory note about all other churches.
It seems so many are classic examples of this: 2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
The way of truth is never really dealt with after some are disillusioned with error, since they think that if what they were involved with was not true, then there can be no other true version. But if what they were in was error and a false version of the true, the true way is never attempted.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
That is what I was trying to say about man-made addition s to the Gospel. My opinion is that you were obviously underneath a set of man made additions that made serving God terrible. But do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. When people find what Jesus was really talking about and filter out all the junk that was added to his words, His word really is true when He said His yoke is easy and burden is light.
The way I cam to grips with this is by getting into the bible for myself, and realizing all I may have been taught was wrong. I sincerely sought God and did not look for loopholes for anything. And this is what Acts 17 described as being more noble. The Bereans took it for themselves and searched the scriptures to see whether what they were told was true or not. When I did that, wow, serving God became AWESOME! And it gets better all the time!
Just because you seemingly were bombarded with extrabiblical error and misinterpretation of the scriptures, does not mean there is no true understanding of the Bible that will give heaven on earth when followed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Michlow, did you consider that when you departed from "the faith" after being disillusioned with what claimed to give you the peace and abundant life you desired, did you stop to think you were handed a false version and try to search the Word yourself to find the true? Or did you abandon all attempts?
I think of how Mormons and JW's are so brainwashed about their cult being the only real church in the world, that when people are disillusioned and leave they will not dare check another church out since they still retain that derogatory note about all other churches.
It seems so many are classic examples of this: 2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
The way of truth is never really dealt with after some are disillusioned with error, since they think that if what they were involved with was not true, then there can be no other true version. But if what they were in was error and a false version of the true, the true way is never attempted.
You would think that would be an easy question to answer...
But the true answer is found somewhere between yes and no. What I recall is that I eventually reached a place where my feelings towards God were so very negative. I thought he was a mean capricious bully who tortured us for His own amusement. And one day I realized that I had a choice. Either God was really truly like that, in which case I wanted nothing to do with Him (let alone "love" Him!).. OR everything I thought I knew was wrong.
It's not like I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away. I had been obsessed with going to hell for 8 years, that doesn't just dissipate overnight. But I found that when your very foundation is skewed, the only way to rebuild is to demolish and start from scratch.
So I went through a time I called my deconstructed, where I took apart everything I ever believed. Everything that I questioned, doubted, or had been used to harm me, I put in the discard pile. I became extremely mistrustful of all things Christian. Church, any kind of ministry, other Christians, the Bible, but more than anything myself. I had zero trust in my own ability to discern anything.
Can you imagine what that feels like? Desperately wanting spiritual answers, but not trusting ANY of the sources you previously got them from?
Yes, I read and studied the Bible. Yes, I sought wise counsel. Yes I prayed, and tried, and cried my little heart out.
In the end, I retained only a belief that there is a God, and a fervent hope that His name is Jesus. For in the Character of Jesus, I see divinity. I see someone that I can love, respect and admire. I can't say the same for the OT God. The God who committed genocide, and approved of sexism and slavery among other things. Which leaves me believing that either the Bible must not be a reliable witness as to the things of God, or I come full circle and must accept that God is a monster.
You would think that would be an easy question to answer...
But the true answer is found somewhere between yes and no. What I recall is that I eventually reached a place where my feelings towards God were so very negative. I thought he was a mean capricious bully who tortured us for His own amusement. And one day I realized that I had a choice. Either God was really truly like that, in which case I wanted nothing to do with Him (let alone "love" Him!).. OR everything I thought I knew was wrong.
It's not like I just shrugged my shoulders and walked away. I had been obsessed with going to hell for 8 years, that doesn't just dissipate overnight. But I found that when your very foundation is skewed, the only way to rebuild is to demolish and start from scratch.
So I went through a time I called my deconstructed, where I took apart everything I ever believed. Everything that I questioned, doubted, or had been used to harm me, I put in the discard pile. I became extremely mistrustful of all things Christian. Church, any kind of ministry, other Christians, the Bible, but more than anything myself. I had zero trust in my own ability to discern anything.
Can you imagine what that feels like? Desperately wanting spiritual answers, but not trusting ANY of the sources you previously got them from?
Yes, I read and studied the Bible. Yes, I sought wise counsel. Yes I prayed, and tried, and cried my little heart out.
In the end, I retained only a belief that there is a God, and a fervent hope that His name is Jesus. For in the Character of Jesus, I see divinity. I see someone that I can love, respect and admire. I can't say the same for the OT God. The God who committed genocide, and approved of sexism and slavery among other things. Which leaves me believing that either the Bible must not be a reliable witness as to the things of God, or I come full circle and must accept that God is a monster.
interesting.... sounds like the mindset of Marcion and how he viewed the OT God. I pray God takes your spirit and guides you into all truth. I ask and say one thing. Seek him with ALL your heart and after that seek him again and again and again and again and he will answer. Take the arrows Joash and strike as many times as it takes to destroy them. So that God will see your heart and he will reveal himself to you.
Last edited by TheLegalist; 05-12-2010 at 12:27 PM.
interesting.... sounds like the mindset of Marcion and how he viewed the OT God. I pray God takes your spirit and guides you into all truth. I ask and say one thing. Seek him with ALL your heart and after that seek him again and again and again and again and he will answer. Take the arrows Joash and strike as many times as it takes to destroy them. So that God will see your heart and he will reveal himself to you.
Wow!! Everyone that does not agree with you is Macionic!!! LOL!!!! That must be your new word of the week!!!!
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