Can you comprehend the reasons a parent might punish a child with a candle flame? Do you really need to?
I can fully comprehend why human beings do what they do. But I cannot fully comprehend why God does what He says He does.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
He commands us to love our enemies, to forgive 7 x 70 in one day, will He not do as He commands????
He condemned Israel for burning their children in a fire the killed them within minutes, will great passion and wrath. Will He do what He condemns??? IN AN INFINITELY MORE HORRIBLE MANNER???
Think about it folks, that's why you have a brain, don't accept the traditions of an apostate church. That is where the doctrine of endless conscience torture came from.
Can you comprehend the reasons a parent might punish a child with a candle flame? Do you really need to?
Which is exaclty why we dont want to understand "proper" justice. We deserve more than what we get in this life. It is also why people tend to make the God of the OT a MUST BE CRUEL God until Jesus died and now he can be nice. (See Marcion) Sadly that is how man people think. OT = must be mean NT= had a plan so he did not have to be mean to people and now we have grace(grace - greater or total tolerance of us sinning.)
I can fully comprehend why human beings do what they do. But I cannot fully comprehend why God does what He says He does.
You can? Mike, you are really hard to figure out. I can't comprehend many of your ideas, some of which I cornered you on in one of your Bible Studies. I found your exaggerated statements, out and out lies. People walked away from your teaching deceived, and when I pointed these out we found your hand in the cookie jar (a False Teacher).
If you can fully comprehend why humans do what they do, why would a father beat his son to death, then sexually assaults him and dismembers his body? What kind of mind can do this sort of thing?
You also danced around Timmy's example of abuse to children, saying:
"Since you are endeavoring to bring discredit to the Bible's teachings on hell altogether, the intent of this question is obvious. And you are dealing with hypotheticals in order to bring disgrace on the teachings of the bible. That is a far cry from answering questions whether you think God is cruel or not."
Timmy's hypothetical, as you call it, is a full and worthy parable. Jesus himself used hypotheticals (hypotheitical; a word formulated from the Greek word, hypothesis; a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.).
Understanding was discovered by using examples that people could relate to. Jesus tried to correlate the relational value of people and God to a Father and Son. The Lord himself wanted us to understand Him by comparing our earthly, family love, and this helps us to conceive the power and intensity of God's Love towards us.
To be honest, if we didn’t have our earthly relations to relate to, I’m not sure how we would be able to understand anything.
You can? Mike, you are really hard to figure out. I can't comprehend many of your ideas, some of which I cornered you on in one of your Bible Studies. I found your exaggerated statements, out and out lies. People walked away from your teaching deceived, and when I pointed these out we found your hand in the cookie jar (a False Teacher).
Here you go again with personal attacks. What gives? And what elements of my teaching did you claim were false doctrine, anyway? What lies did I make in exaggerated statements? I do not know what you are talking about. False teacher? And you do not even believe much of the bible. Guess I am in good company with the bible writers.
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If you can fully comprehend why humans do what they do, why would a father beat his son to death, then sexually assaults him and dismembers his body? What kind of mind can do this sort of thing?
I can comprehend why -- they're insane.
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You also danced around Timmy's example of abuse to children, saying:
"Since you are endeavoring to bring discredit to the Bible's teachings on hell altogether, the intent of this question is obvious. And you are dealing with hypotheticals in order to bring disgrace on the teachings of the bible. That is a far cry from answering questions whether you think God is cruel or not."
Timmy's hypothetical, as you call it, is a full and worthy parable. Jesus himself used hypotheticals (hypotheitical; a word formulated from the Greek word, hypothesis; a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis) or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts.).
Understanding was discovered by using examples that people could relate to. Jesus tried to correlate the relational value of people and God to a Father and Son. The Lord himself wanted us to understand Him by comparing our earthly, family love, and this helps us to conceive the power and intensity of God's Love towards us.
To be honest, if we didn’t have our earthly relations to relate to, I’m not sure how we would be able to understand anything.
Again, you discredit the entirety of the bible. How can we relate?
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Here you go again with personal attacks. What gives? And what elements of my teaching did you claim were false doctrine, anyway? What lies did I make in exaggerated statements? I do not know what you are talking about. False teacher? And you do not even believe much of the bible. Guess I am in good company with the bible writers.
I can comprehend why -- they're insane.
Again, you discredit the entirety of the bible. How can we relate?
A few minutes into your message, you state that God had "Knocked off" Elijah, or "Took him off the scene", because he couldn't stand up to Jezebel. You said, God said, "I'm going to use Elisha to deal with Jezebel because you couldn't."
Maybe I'm missing something, but where in Scripture does it state this?
In fact, Elijah said this after the great sin against Naboth;
And of Jezebel also spake the LORD, saying, The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.
Him that dieth of Ahab in the city the dogs shall eat; and him that dieth in the field shall the fowls of the air eat.
But there was none like unto Ahab, which did sell himself to work wickedness in the sight of the LORD, whom Jezebel his wife stirred up.
(You deleted the video or link to this message)
Personal attacks??? Where did I say I discredit the entire Bible? Careful, careful, we might catch you with that little hand in the jar again!
Insane? Wow, that was profound! How do you know they aren't devil possessed, mentally retarded, or over-drugged?
A few minutes into your message, you state that God had "Knocked off" Elijah, or "Took him off the scene", because he couldn't stand up to Jezebel. You said, God said, "I'm going to use Elisha to deal with Jezebel because you couldn't."
Maybe I'm missing something, but where in Scripture does it state this?
If you recall I also said I stood corrected and agreed that was not the case. And I wrote these words:
I should not have said, "God said," since I believe it is implied but not explicit in scripture. Thanks for pointing this out. I should have said I see an implication. We cannot say God said something when it is not explicit that He did.
This is a viewpoint I cannot be dogmatic about.
I believe Elijah failed in not standing up to Jezebel, for it was after this that God had him anoint someone else, Jehu, who would indeed deal with her and cause her demise.
...
But Elisha, though he did not replace Elijah to stand against Jezebel, replaced Elijah in his overall office. Hence, he got his mantle. I was too hasty when I wrote what I did, saying Elisha would deal with her. Sorry.
I then recently read a book by John Bevere who said Elijah failed God and that stuck in my mind, I guess.
And you responded
mfblume, thanks for your humble response. I feel like you put ice on the fire with some class.
And now I am a false teacher over something I was not dogmatic about and stood corrected about?
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Personal attacks???
You called me a false teacher.
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Where did I say I discredit the entire Bible? Careful, careful, we might catch you with that little hand in the jar again!
You do not believe the entirety of the bible. I honestly meant to say since you do not agree with the entire bible then you discredit the fact that ALL the bible is true. I can see where my words sounded like you believe nothing in the entire bible. Ooops. I honestly did not mean that.
So do you believe parts of the bible are wrong?
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Insane? Wow, that was profound! How do you know they aren't devil possessed, mentally retarded, or over-drugged?
Those are options too that we can comprehend about people.
But, false teacher? Come on. lol
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
You do not believe the entirety of the bible. I honestly meant to say since you do not agree with the entire bible then you discredit the fact that ALL the bible is true. I can see where my words sounded like you believe nothing in the entire bible. Ooops. I honestly did not mean that.
So do you believe parts of the bible are wrong?
Those are options too that we can comprehend about people.
But, false teacher? Come on. lol
The things you said in that message misled the listeners. That is false teaching. I also haven't listened to you teach before, other than that Video, so I don't know about other potential ideas of yours that might be misleading or not true. I’m also a public speaker and pastor and I have said things that have been false or presumed. I’ve had to apologize for inflated statements, and today I encourage our church to question anything I say. This keeps me on the up and up, and I have become extremely cautious in my teaching format.
As far as me not believing in the entirety of the Bible, I'm no different than those of the past who question what goes in, and what goes out. Agreement about our current English Bible is by far, a huge problem. That's a subject for another Thread.
Now, about people and your comprehension and understanding of them. If you and I were alive a thousand years ago, people that did "Insane" things were not considered insane. People were considered demon possessed, but today modern medicine has found that people of the past were totally mistreated by spiritual dogmas of false judgment.
This proves that understanding and truth evolved over a period of years, and that possible flaws exist in other Historical or Religious documents that have been handed down from thousands of years ago. People believed things, taught things, and labeled things as TRUE, but later the Truth was known and people stopped worrying about falling off the edge of the Earth.
I'm sorry Mike for being so forthright, but it really bothers me when people have no leniency for error in the Religious areas of life, including Biblical errors. Nothing is perfect in this life, and to believe that something is perfect is a fantasy. We are really the only Generation in Time where a Bible is practically in every house, leaving many in our existence in the dark about this mysterious Book.
For instance, many people don’t even know that the Book of Revelation wasn’t even in the original Canon. It wasn’t till the 4th Century that this Book was reluctantly (by some) placed into the New Testament. Even to this day, there are Churches who don’t feel this Book should be in our current Bible. See, these are problems, and to just look the other way causes me to become a flagrant acceptor of something that might be false.
It is my Humanitarian and Civil duty to stand before the Courts of Faith and ask, "Why"?
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