Come on. He listed a bunch of things that will happen. Says to watch for them. Say you will see them. If you were standing there listening to Jesus say this, what generation would you think He meant?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Behold, I will gather them [the Isreali peoples] out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place [the land of Palestine, modern Israel], and I will cause them to dwell [there in this land] safely:
And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
And I will give them [the Jewish nation] one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land [the land of Palestine, Israel] assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.
For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
One is granted the liberty, of course, of deciding for themself whether this is a reference to God's re-gathering of the Jewish people to the "promised land" following their captivity in the days of old [preceding the first coming of their Messiah, as noted by Godsdrummer], but when compared to the small phrase one finds recorded in Isaiah 11:11 ~ "...from the islands of the sea," then I experience some trouble in accepting the view that this prophecy "was fulfilled at Pentecost when the remnant of Israel was regathered into one body (nation) through the baptism of the Spirit."
Throughout the Bible the earth itself is oft-times noted in the metaphorical sense as the "sea." Acknowledging that following the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD, and the subsequent dispersing of the remaining Israelites in the land outside of that city into the various other countries of the world, then the limited number of languages noted in Acts 2:9-11 can hardly be said as representing the languages of every nation of the world.
Therefore the question must be tendered, and answered ~ What are those countries, which Isaiah referred to as being "the islands of the sea,"and Jeremiah, speaking on God's behalf, described as "all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath"? Will God gather the Jews only from the 15 or so nations that are mentioned in Acts? As for me, I think not, rather I believe He will gather them from out of "every" nation, including those mentioned in Acts.
Lest one exercise extreme caution, it is possible to become so enamored in their beliefs concerning that which is written in one particular passage of the scriptures, that it causes them to unwittingly disregard the things which others express concerning that matter. I encourage others to always do a topical search of a matter in the biblical record, and carefully examine all that it is possible for one to find written about it, and this before allowing themselves to "set in concrete" their belief. And, even after doing all that, I've found that I need to go back from time to time, and carefully re-examine the things which I allowed myself to accept as truth the "first time," for it just might be that there was something, which I had considered to be insignificant at that time, when the acquisition of knowledge about related matters that I have attained since, gives me reason to doubt the merits of my original findings.
Again, just some thoughts tendered here for others to "peruse" for the betterment of their understanding, that is, if the things I've written here are found to be of value. But, don't take them as indisputable truths: study them out for your own self.
If it had been myself, and I, as was Jesus, were living at that time and knowledgeable of the circumstances of that particular generation which would be witness to the things of which Jesus spoke about, then I too would be compelled to refer to the times in which we live today as being "this" generation.
Kinda reminds me of Bill Clinton's explanation of what "is" is, huh?
Yes, Lafon, it does, until one takes into context that the world catches fire every 80 years, since the industrial revolution, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Come on. He listed a bunch of things that will happen. Says to watch for them. Say you will see them. If you were standing there listening to Jesus say this, what generation would you think He meant?
The generation that exists when a spiritual interpretation of "fig tree" is assumed. Understand that I'm with Lafon here as far as examining, although I currently am leaning the other way on what the "fig tree" actually reps here.
Yes, Lafon, it does, until one takes into context that the world catches fire every 80 years, since the industrial revolution, anyway.
The generation that exists when a spiritual interpretation of "fig tree" is assumed. Understand that I'm with Lafon here as far as examining, although I currently am leaning the other way on what the "fig tree" actually reps here.
bbyrd, your apparent search for the truth of this matter reminds me of where I found myself to be 25 years ago, constantly seeking out the opinions/views of others in my efforts to formulate my elementary belief. But then that all changed when I read these words, spoken by Jesus:
"Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3 KJV)
Gradually I came to realize that I must admit my inherent ignorance of all things spiritual to God, and seek for His revelations of understanding rather than hearing of the opinions/views other mortals like myself, and only after this did my understanding of the truth of His word become "alive" and meaningful for me. That's not to say that this was not so before, only now it was not in accordance with my perceived conclusions, or that of others, rather it was what the Spirit would reveal to me.
When one reads Jesus' words recorded in Matthew 7:7-8 ~ "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you; for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened," I think it important to note that the One who responds in the proper manner to these acts which we are commanded to perform, is none other than God, and not other mortals such as we are.
Again, and as always, just a few subtle suggestions which I pray shall be of some help in your enlightenment of all things spiritual. If you are anywhere likened to myself, we need all of the help we can get, huh?
I enjoyed hearing your thoughts, and ideas about the fig tree, and especially I appreciated your last thought, noted above.
None of us really know for sure exactly the meaning of all the parables, prophet writings, and scriptures, and how they all work together. In fact Jesus himself, said he did not know the day or the hour when He would return. So each one of us must be ready, study, and watch the signs around us...
I personally feel that some of the parables, and prophecies have been fulfilled, and also that history does repeat itself. But there are still things that have not been completely fulfilled too in the scriptures... what about the moon turning into darkness and the sun into blood... don't think that has happened yet.
When anyone states that he or she *KNOWS* and has all this figured out... it is then I don't really want to hear what they have to say, because of Jesus's statement "No man knoweth the day or the hour"...
Your kind words are sincerely appreciated, however, in all candor I must not hesitate to inform you that I am not always as benevolent in my remarks when dealing with those whom I believe should have already achieved a higher degree of understanding of the truth about a matter. If, for instance, I am discussing a matter with a member of the ministerial leadership, and I detect a fault in their public proclamations, then I am confident that they would not at all concur with your conclusion regarding the manner in which I deliver my thoughts.
Recognizing [or, believing] that the majority of those who publish their views about things on this forum are not necessarily of the Oneness Apostolic faith, then I try to formulate the words of my response accordingly. Even for many OAP adherents, the level of understanding of spiritual things will vary, depending on their length of sainthood, how much time they have expended in personal Bible studies, and a host of other reasons, therefore I try to be mindful of these things and maintain a sense of balance in my public expressions. [BTW, I was not "born with a Bible in hand," so I've had to acquire many of my beliefs via the usual route of trial and error, just as everyone else.]
God advises us that "...the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:7 KJV). Simply interpreted, IMHO, this implies that all those who exercises spiritual leadership [whether it be the Sunday School Teacher, Pastor, Evangelist, etc], it is essential that they first attain a proper understanding of the things which they publish as truth, for not only do others look to them for knowledge of the truth about a matter, but God holds them to a greater degree of accountability than He does others.
In either case, as for me, I try to always be mindful of these words of admonition of our Lord: "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (Matthew 12:36-37 KJV)
I want to be justified by the words which I publish, whether they be written or oral. I can only rest with the assurance that it will be so when I seek, with God's guidance, to publish His word always; exercising extreme care that my explanations thereof align with it.
I would also add that I hold to the same manner of thinking regarding the actual fulfilling of many of the prophecies, parables, etc. Some have already taken place, while others are yet in the future. But I also am cognizant of the implications of these words in the prophet Amos ~ "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7 KJV) He will let His servants who are resident in the earth "know" that which He is about to do, and this "before" He does it.
i always thought the budding of the fig tree corresponded to 1967 when israel conquered jerusalem and the bible lands of judea and samaria in the 6 day war. the birth was in 48 but the budding in 67.
Originally Posted by Lafon;1141462
One is granted the liberty, of course, of deciding for themself whether this is a reference to God's re-gathering of the Jewish people to the "promised land" following their captivity in the days of old [preceding the first coming of their Messiah, as noted by Godsdrummer
, but when compared to the small phrase one finds recorded in Isaiah 11:11 ~ "...from the islands of the sea," then I experience some trouble in accepting the view that this prophecy "was fulfilled at Pentecost when the remnant of Israel was regathered into one body (nation) through the baptism of the Spirit."
...
Therefore the question must be tendered, and answered ~ What are those countries, which Isaiah referred to as being "the islands of the sea,"and Jeremiah, speaking on God's behalf, described as "all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath"? Will God gather the Jews only from the 15 or so nations that are mentioned in Acts? As for me, I think not, rather I believe He will gather them from out of "every" nation, including those mentioned in Acts.
One of those countries that Isaiah mentioned that is an "island of the sea" is Crete, which is mentioned in Acts:
...both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our [own] languages the great deeds of God!” Acts 2:11
Isaiah didn't mention all countries that people would be gathered from, so why stumble over the fact that the author of Acts didn't list every island?
i always thought the budding of the fig tree corresponded to 1967 when israel conquered jerusalem and the bible lands of judea and samaria in the 6 day war. the birth was in 48 but the budding in 67.
Yes, I've always assumed one or the other of those dates myself, but have a suspicion now that a more spiritual meaning of "...fig tree, and all the other trees start to bud..." might not be talking specifically about nations. I was mostly curious about any prior doctrine here.
And ya, I've asked, but still waiting for any evidence of this "secret squirrel" appearance by Christ in 70 AD...
(Luke 11:47-50)
"Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them. So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' Therefore this generation(which generation?) will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world." "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"
Matt. 21:33 There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?[j]
43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.
bb, do you view verse 40 as referring to ad70?
__________________ As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
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