Did Jesus Christ Have The Ability To Sin ?

[Steve Epley]

I am somewhere between Elder Blume and J-Rock. I do believe I can live an overcoming life by implimenting the principles in Rom. 8 ONLY through the Spirit can we overcome those imperfections in our lives. However though I believe that it is possible it seems chapter 7 is my address and chapter 8 is where I visit. I would like to change to the exact opposite but to will to do is there however I find in my members. I think the office of the Great High Priest intercedes for my imperfections until I reach perfection. I am pressing-reaching-apprehending-yet it always seems out of reach. Not discouraged so I am yet pressing. He knows we are but flesh.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am somewhere between Elder Blume and J-Rock. I do believe I can live an overcoming life by implimenting the principles in Rom. 8 ONLY through the Spirit can we overcome those imperfections in our lives. However though I believe that it is possible it seems chapter 7 is my address and chapter 8 is where I visit. I would like to change to the exact opposite but to will to do is there however I find in my members. I think the office of the Great High Priest intercedes for my imperfections until I reach perfection. I am pressing-reaching-apprehending-yet it always seems out of reach. Not discouraged so I am yet pressing. He knows we are but flesh.

I don't think you are between me and Blume....by what you just said, we stand in juxtaposition...as I agree with you in this regard...you're right, the broken clock is right twice a day...this is my second time I agree with you.

[mfblume]

I guess it IS online!

http://www.ccel.org/n/nee/normal/

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am somewhere between Elder Blume and J-Rock. I do believe I can live an overcoming life by implimenting the principles in Rom. 8 ONLY through the Spirit can we overcome those imperfections in our lives. However though I believe that it is possible it seems chapter 7 is my address and chapter 8 is where I visit. I would like to change to the exact opposite but to will to do is there however I find in my members.

That is Paul's answer, brother! To resort to our fleshly members and their inherent power to do good is the problem. We are not meant to use flesh and our fleshly members. We ar meant to yield our members to God for His use of them as His instruments of righteousness. (6:13).

I think the office of the Great High Priest intercedes for my imperfections until I reach perfection. I am pressing-reaching-apprehending-yet it always seems out of reach. Not discouraged so I am yet pressing. He knows we are but flesh.

I agree, but He does want us to learn how to walk in the Spirit so that the how-to that is not in our flesh is found to be in Him!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Bro. MFBLUME, do you truly believe you live a life without any sin whatsoever and that at the trumpet call / rapture, we will have millions of Believers in a unison of purity and unblemished lives with no hint of sin?

We will only have as many believers victorious over sin as have learned to walk in the Spirit. If the Lord came today, most would not be in that state. All they can depend upon is forgiveness when they repent after they sin. And they will be saved. But there is more to it for us today than sin and get forgiven and sin and get forgiven. That does not mean it is not possible for you and I to be in that place, if we could only but learn the truths of Romans 6 and get them into our spirits!

Our victory over sin is that, guess what, we already have someone who WON the game for us....and our life now is not focused on rules and regulations,

Who said anything about rules and regulations? That is minding the things of the flesh and doing exactly what we are not supposed to do. Paul was going by rules and regulations when he recounted his attempts in Romans 7. But he realized that law is spiritual and he is carnal. So the two do not mix. Instead, there is a righteousness outside the law through faith. We have been given that at salvation, but now it also COMES OUT through our lives BY FAITH instead of flesh-exertion. We need faith for Him to empower us once we yield to him our flesh to use!

but rather on a relationship with God where we bring God glory through our obedience and love for him and from all the fruit we bear through our good deeds.....

Jesus indeed won the victory! But he also provided a way for us to live above sin if we would only learn MORE of the work of the cross and how much we really were made deasd to sin by our deaths WITH CHRIST. Until we learn that, we cannot reason it out. So we doubt. But when we go through Romans 6 as Paul walks us through it, we can follow the reasoning that inspired him to say we do not have to continue in sin becuase we are dead to it!!!

This has simply NOT BEEN TAUGHT ENOUGH. Our forefathers never knew it, and so we are left being led by the Spirit to learn it TODAY.

Folks, we may have been in this thing for decades, and even preachers for years and years. BUT THERE IS MORE TO LEARN, STILL. Peter even said that some of the things Paul wrote about righteousness are hard to be understood. None of the other apostles got the revelation of this like Paul did. And preachers can go for years never getting into this. God wants to show us these things!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That does not mean it is not possible for you and I to be in that place....

A chasing after the wind if one thinks they will reach absolute purity and perfection on this side of eternity, IMO....but I still need to review the PDF of the Nee book you linked and re-read Chapter 6....just to view this from your perspective....


If man's central focus is on living perfectly, no soon after, I think spiritual pride is birthed and one begins to look down upon others....and one then keeps score based on Self's accomplishments....

it reminds me of the two dudes in Jesus' story where one was bawling on his knees in shame and in need for a Savior while the other pounded his chest and gave himself kudos for all that he had done.....

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

A chasing after the wind if one thinks they will reach absolute purity and perfection on this side of eternity, IMO....but I still need to review the PDF of the Nee book you linked and re-read Chapter 6....just to view this from your perspective....

Brother, thanks for your consideration to read the book.

But again, Paul clearly stated that we are as much dead to sin as Christ was when He resurrected. (Ro 6:9-11). And it is just this very sort of reasoning you espouse, no insult intended, that Romans 6 is trying to remove from our minds. We are dead indeed unto sin by ONE DEATH with Christ.

Brother, he that is dead is freed from sin. And we died with Christ when we were baptized into Him, for they who are baptized into Him are baptized into HIS DEATH. So long as we look to our fleshly ability to do good, IT IS A CHASE AFTER WIND. But when we walk in the Spirit, and not fulfill the lust of the flesh, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh is victory over sin!

To say this is chasnig after the wind is to say Paul was absolutely wrong in Romans 6.

AGAIN.. notice that Paul showed the keys to victory in Romans 6, and in describing his problem in Romans 7 he never ONCE MENTIONED USING THOSE KEYS from Romans 6. This proves that Romans 7 was past failure through which he learned the truths of which he wrote in chapter 6.

Again.... there is a remedy in 7:24-25, whcih woudl not be there if your hypothesis were correct.

Can we, or can we not walk after the Spirit? Paul said we can.

If man's central focus is on living perfectly, no soon after, I think spiritual pride is birthed and one begins to look down upon others....and one then keeps score based on Self's accomplishments....

Think about it. If we deny SELF so much that we allow the Spirit to live through us, then PRIDE is resurrecting SELF so as to hinder thatfrom occurring. It is only so much as we deny self and rely upon Him that we can do this successfully.

If our central focus is that we can do nothing without His empowerment, so we can live perfectly, then pride CANNOT ENTER.

it reminds me of the two dudes in Jesus' story where one was bawling on his knees in shame and in need for a Savior while the other pounded his chest and gave himself kudos for all that he had done.....

What this reminds me of, ironically, is the pharisee in that story who relied upon self effort so much that he was full of pride. But the publican who admitted his weakness is what is our example to depend upon God's Spirit in us since we KNOW we are nothing without him.

[J-Roc]

Bro. MFBlume, what you present appears idealistic and appealing, but I don't think it is realistic to think we can live life on earth without any sin...do you think there are folks that live their christian life in complete and spotless holiness without a hint of sin, or do we crucify ourselves daily....I appreciate your desire in the striving, and I am all for it, but I suggest we never quite reach it...thankfully, we are not required to live perfectly....woe is me if I had to live perfectly....I'd be a miserable failure....a wretched man indeed....and that is why I am in need of a Savior.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Brother, thanks for your consideration to read the book.

But again, Paul clearly stated that we are as much dead to sin as Christ was when He resurrected. (Ro 6:9-11). And it is just this very sort of reasoning you espouse, no insult intended, that Romans 6 is trying to remove from our minds. We are dead indeed unto sin by ONE DEATH with Christ.

Brother, he that is dead is freed from sin. And we died with Christ when we were baptized into Him, for they who are baptized into Him are baptized into HIS DEATH. So long as we look to our fleshly ability to do good, IT IS A CHASE AFTER WIND. But when we walk in the Spirit, and not fulfill the lust of the flesh, not fulfilling the lust of the flesh is victory over sin!

To say this is chasnig after the wind is to say Paul was absolutely wrong in Romans 6.

AGAIN.. notice that Paul showed the keys to victory in Romans 6, and in describing his problem in Romans 7 he never ONCE MENTIONED USING THOSE KEYS from Romans 6. This proves that Romans 7 was past failure through which he learned the truths of which he wrote in chapter 6.

Again.... there is a remedy in 7:24-25, whcih woudl not be there if your hypothesis were correct.

Can we, or can we not walk after the Spirit? Paul said we can.



Think about it. If we deny SELF so much that we allow the Spirit to live through us, then PRIDE is resurrecting SELF so as to hinder thatfrom occurring. It is only so much as we deny self and rely upon Him that we can do this successfully.

If our central focus is that we can do nothing without His empowerment, so we can live perfectly, then pride CANNOT ENTER.



What this reminds me of, ironically, is the pharisee in that story who relied upon self effort so much that he was full of pride. But the publican who admitted his weakness is what is our example to depend upon God's Spirit in us since we KNOW we are nothing without him.

Bro Blume,

I was just thinking about this last night, and come here to find it being discussed.

It is either fact of fiction that we are free from the grip of sin. I believe Rom 6 states very plainly that we are no longer in bondage to sins sway. So my only recourse is that if I fall into a temptation, it is because I chose to do so, and allowed myself to do so. There is no "the devil made me do it" excuses. My how we have lived so beneath the place that God has prepared for us.

It comes down to a choice for the born again saint. God will not force us, and since we are a new creature in Christ, the sinful man cannot force us either, as we are free from the bondage.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Bro. MFBlume, what you present appears idealistic and appealing, but I don't think it is realistic to think we can live life on earth without any sin...do you think there are folks that live their christian life in complete and spotless holiness without a hint of sin, or do we crucify ourselves daily....I appreciate your desire in the striving, and I am all for it, but I suggest we never quite reach it...thankfully, we are not required to live perfectly....woe is me if I had to live perfectly....I'd be a miserable failure....a wretched man indeed....and that is why I am in need of a Savior.

Brother, what saith the scriptures? Forget about what people are living like. Most misunderstand Paul. But what do the scriptures day?