Did Jesus Christ Have The Ability To Sin ?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I know some people and I think Elder Epley knows them also. They think you are not born again until there is NO sin in you for a born again person cannot sin...
If that be true then most of us are NOT born again for at some point or the other we sin...in deed or in thought or in actions...What do you all think?

I couldn't agree with you more....we fail to meet GOD's righteous and holy standard and that is why we live thankfully for what Jesus did for us and what we could not do for ourselves....this is not license to sin....quite contrary...out of our love for God, we obey his commands and we seek to bring him glory in all the good and holy things we do....we live our relationship with him and enjoy his amazing grace.

[Steve Epley]

A child of God does not practice sin his lifestyle is changed a new heart is given him. However practicing sin and Romans 7 is NOT the same.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

J-Roc,

You are correct. No one can do this. Only Jesus was perfect and without sin. But God does not ask you to do it. He asks that you just allow his spirit to become the dominating force in your life, and he will live his life through you. Your only part is the choosing this day whom you will serve. Either the carnal, or the spiritual.

Originally Posted by mfblume

You got it perfectly!

Only JESUS can live this life. That is why Paul said CHRIST LIVED IN HIM.

Wow, MFBLUME....you are really confusing me....I agree with St. Matthew's comment and so do you...but you and I cant seem to reconcile our viewpoints...same thing happened earlier with what Daniel said....

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

I couldn't agree with you more....we fail to meet GOD's righteous and holy standard and that is why we live thankfully for what Jesus did for us and what we could not do for ourselves....this is not license to sin....quite contrary...out of our love for God, we obey his commands and we seek to bring him glory in all the good and holy things we do....we live our relationship with him and enjoy his amazing grace.

But why think that the faith that says we can live above sin is trusting in ourselves? The whole point I have always made about this is most certainly the opposite. We CANNOT do it in our power. Until we trust In Him to do it, and forever remove the thought from our minds that we do not need Him to do it, we will not live in this victory.

Jesus alone could save us, and Christ's life in us alone can cause us to live above sin. If you are thinking my viewpoint is proposing we can get proud because of self succeeding, you missed everything I said. I said self cannot do it. We can only succeed if we trust in His empowerment. And without humility, we are not trusting in his empowerment, so we cannot get proud in such an endeavour.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

A child of God does not practice sin his lifestyle is changed a new heart is given him. However practicing sin and Romans 7 is NOT the same.

Agreed!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Wow, MFBLUME....you are really confusing me....I agree with St. Matthew's comment and so do you...but you and I cant seem to reconcile our viewpoints...same thing happened earlier with what Daniel said....

You are missing something I am saying. I think it is because you cannot separate pride from thinking one can live above sin, since you are not noticing that I am saying humble reliance on Him, and not our selves, is the key.

Keep chatting and we may clarify this for each other.

Stmatt is saying we can live without sinning. You are not. Did you not notice that?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by mfblume

But why think that the faith that says we can live above sin is trusting in ourselves? The whole point I have always made about this is most certainly the opposite. We CANNOT do it in our power. Until we trust In Him to do it, and forever remove the thought from our minds that we do not need Him to do it, we will not live in this victory.

Jesus alone could save us, and Christ's life in us alone can cause us to live above sin. If you are thinking my viewpoint is proposing we can get proud because of self succeeding, you missed everything I said. I said self cannot do it. We can only succeed if we trust in His empowerment. And without humility, we are not trusting in his empowerment, so we cannot get proud in such an endeavour.

I have NEVER met anyone who would say they could make perfection or live an overcoming life by themselves? I think you are overreaching.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have NEVER met anyone who would say they could make perfection or live an overcoming life by themselves? I think you are overreaching.

I am responding to j-roc. He said that faith to live above sin makes us become proud.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Wow, MFBLUME....you are really confusing me....I agree with St. Matthew's comment and so do you...but you and I cant seem to reconcile our viewpoints...same thing happened earlier with what Daniel said....

Stmatt said this...

I believe Rom 6 states very plainly that we are no longer in bondage to sins sway. So my only recourse is that if I fall into a temptation, it is because I chose to do so, and allowed myself to do so.

He could tell you himself, which I hope he will, but he said that the only reason we sin is because we CHOOSE TO. And you are saying we cannot help but sin. Big difference.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are missing something I am saying. I think it is because you cannot separate pride from thinking one can live above sin, since you are not noticing that I am saying humble reliance on Him, and not our selves, is the key.

Keep chatting and we make clarify this for each other.

Stmatt is saying we can live without sinning. You are not. Did you not notice that?

Actually, my brother, I am not attaching pride to this....that it could become a stumbling block down the road there is no question.

I think where you and I differ is how we are interpreting what it means to die to sin...it seems that you believe we die to it in the sense that it never appears again in our Christian walk so long as we remain in Christ....but I can prove to you biblically that that is not so...we can remain in Christ and yet produce no fruit (an immature place to be within the vineyard of the Lord)....

...my view in dying to sin is in regards to dying to an old pattern of living and thinking and adopting a new quality of moral excellence (holiness). In Christ's death, He submitted for the sake of sinners to the "reign" of sin but his death broke the judicial link between sin and death and he passed FOREVER from the sphere of sin's reign. For the Believer, he is to exchange sin for righteousness as his master....in doing so, he will live a life characterized more by moral virtues than sinful behavior...but as St. Matthew suggested, this is a daily choice to be made by the believer.