I'd be willing to accept what you are saying if you told me how many churches and/or pastors make you privy of their finances, and then what number of those behave as you say they do.
It's sort of a "trust, but verify" thing. It's just a question. It's not an attack. I only attack people I know. . . .
No attack taken. I have been around apostolic churches a LONG time and the vast majority of pastors I know "control" the entire tithing account. If they control it, the IRS considers it to be income. I haven't taken a poll on pastors, but my statement is based upon my experience. I would be willing to have others state the contrary, but I'm not sure they can.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Firstly I am NOT a cheat NOR a liar and resent that neither am I a hireling that is afraid of my shadow. But to set the record straight the tithe belongs to me that does NOT mean I take them all. I set my salary and pay taxes on that amount and I am set up according to IRS laws. NO church board designates my salary I do that however the trustees do know what I am paid and my living expenses. IF the board sets my salary then I am their employee I am NOT their employee GOD alone is my employer. The Holy Ghost makes overseers in the church NOT some church board. Muzzle NOT the ox Paul said a preacher who salary is set by a church board is muzzled. The ox is free to eat unmuzzled and if he eats too much he pays for it. That is THE BOOK. The levites lived of things of the Temple(the tithing chamber) and levites oversaw it NOT laymen. Most Pentecostal churches have an Eliashibib who is afraid of his shadow for a pastor and Tobiah is dolling out the salary. But A real MAN of God THREW him out and put the levites back in control. Neh. 13 read it and weep!
I agree that this is the way things ought to be done.
However, you are a jewel among men. Others have taken this same position, and then absconded with everything, leaving the church to collapse in on itself. That is the reason that you have boards setting the pay most places. Congregations of every faith have been burned many times this way.
I have observed several pastors who were technically on the books as hirelings behave as just as boldly as you claim you are free to do. Those shackles are in the mind. If the preacher is true, and the board is out of God's will, the preacher is done a favor, frankly, if he is asked to move on.
Your congregation has come to know, love and trust you. What will the procedure be with your replacement, when that time comes?
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Wow. You pastor your church for free? I don't think you've ever mentioned that before, Brother.
Seth is a great guy. He works it is a small family oriented church a very old church one of the oldest congregations in Southern Indiana out in the boon docks. He is a faithful young man.
No attack taken. I have been around apostolic churches a LONG time and the vast majority of pastors I know "control" the entire tithing account. If they control it, the IRS considers it to be income. I haven't taken a poll on pastors, but my statement is based upon my experience. I would be willing to have others state the contrary, but I'm not sure they can.
NO sir you again are incorrect controlling the tithe does NOT make it taxable ONLY what you recieve personally. A tax professional set our up along with about 300 churches. He goes to the IRS clinics every year for the new changes. Your info is flawed.
No but it was Paul who used the principle in 1Cor.9:7-14
Verse 14 says EVEN SO or in the same manner. What manner verse 8
".....they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple..."
That was the tithing chamber.
GOD ORDAINED THAT so Paul said. Dan I like you but you don't have the status of Paul I hope that doesn't offend you.
and once again Paul throughout the epistles describes new covenant giving ... and never once gives instructions about tithing to the new converts born and raised in pagan tradition ....
He gives advice on almost every human and spiritual interaction ... from marriage to medicinal advice to Timothy [which by the way, include consumption of alcohol] ... It would seem to behoove Paul to teach these babes in the Lord ... on the Law of Circumcision ... no????
I agree that this is the way things ought to be done.
However, you are a jewel among men. Others have taken this same position, and then absconded with everything, leaving the church to collapse in on itself. That is the reason that you have boards setting the pay most places. Congregations of every faith have been burned many times this way.
I have observed several pastors who were technically on the books as hirelings behave as just as boldly as you claim you are free to do. Those shackles are in the mind. If the preacher is true, and the board is out of God's will, the preacher is done a favor, frankly, if he is asked to move on.
Your congregation has come to know, love and trust you. What will the procedure be with your replacement, when that time comes?
This indeed is a conundrum ... when my Dad died after pastoring that particular congregation ... a system had to be in place ... folks, understandably, won't simply trust the new pastor in the same manner.
I agree that this is the way things ought to be done.
However, you are a jewel among men. Others have taken this same position, and then absconded with everything, leaving the church to collapse in on itself. That is the reason that you have boards setting the pay most places. Congregations of every faith have been burned many times this way.
I have observed several pastors who were technically on the books as hirelings behave as just as boldly as you claim you are free to do. Those shackles are in the mind. If the preacher is true, and the board is out of God's will, the preacher is done a favor, frankly, if he is asked to move on.
Your congregation has come to know, love and trust you. What will the procedure be with your replacement, when that time comes?
True claiming to be a pastor does not guarantee character. I too have witnessed abuses by charlatans but also by church boards who fired the preacher when he touched their families. God hired me and he fires me not a church board. However I do have elders in my life I would willingly submit to.
and once again Paul throughout the epistles describes new covenant giving ... and never once gives instructions about tithing to the new converts of the pagan tradition ....
He gives advice on almost every human and spiritual interaction ... from marriage to medicinal advice to Timothy [which by the way, include consumption of alcohol] ... It would seem to behoove Paul to teach these babes in the Lord ... on the Law of Circumcision ... no????
NO sir you again are incorrect controlling the tithe does NOT make it taxable ONLY what you recieve personally. A tax professional set our up along with about 300 churches. He goes to the IRS clinics every year for the new changes. Your info is flawed.
Elder, that has been the "sticky" point. If the pastor has sole and only control of the tithing account and uses that account to pay himself, his expenses, living and otherwise, it is considered "received" by him even if he pays church expenses as well.
If that is NOT the case, then the IRS has changed their rulings, which I don't believe is the case. If the pastor is paid, receives a check from the tithing account, and does NOT have SOLE control, the total amount in the account is NOT considered received.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
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