Tulsa Report Day 2

[CC1]

Originally Posted by PocatelloApostolic

I will say this though. I think that, over a period of 1-2 years there will be alot more that will be leaving not only the UPC but also other org's especially if this group keeps the spirit that has prevaded in this meeting!

You sound absolutely giddy at the prospect of them raiding the UPC of its members.

If they can pull most of the conservatives out of the UPC that has kept it from being a powerful relevent force in carrying out the Great Commission I say "More Power to 'em!".

Give them a year or two and they will be fussing and fighting among themselves over so called "holiness" issues. The guys allowing 3/4 sleeves will be the new targets, the "libs" of that org. Not to mention the few that use the internet and video.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

I think I was the last preacher to meet a Louisiana District Board when C. G. Weeks was district superintendent.

Campmeeting 1978 - I had graduated from JCM that May.

I met the board for my general license Friday night just before 7pm. Weeks briefly read a note from Brother Ewing and they passed me, then talked about having to rush out to get on the platform.

That was the final night of campmeeting,

Weeks complained of chest pains after service and was brought to the hospital, where he died that night.

Wow! You have quite an effect on people!

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Wow! You have quite an effect on people!

What can I say?

Must be my charming personality.

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Yes... "How good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"... but what do you do when can't 'dwell together'?

The same Bible that says that also said, "How can two walk together except the agree?" jrLA, there are times that unity is NOT pleasing to God! You seem to imply that these men should overlook what they are actually convicted by God about for the sole purpose of 'unity'. Is that really what it takes to please God?

Their 'breaking point' may be advertising on television... yours and mine are probably somewhere else. However, the principle remains the same; if you've read my prior post you need to answer the question for me...

Should I take my Church to 'fellowship meetings' with a Church that casually drinks... for the sake of 'unity'?

Should I take my Church to fellowship with people who believe that trinity mode baptism in the titles is as good as Jesus Name baptism because it's just a 'sign that doesn't mean much'... all for the sake of unity?

Unity is a great thing. Unity at the cost of sacrificing genuine convictions is not pleasing to God.

I respect the men who left. They are living by their convictions. I intend to live by mine. But I won't put a price tag on my calling to protect my Saints just for the sake of 'unity'.

Standing for your convictions is one thing. I applaud you for that. You do have a right to protect your people, that is for sure. You should feel that way.

Of course, there are times when your conviction outwieghs your committment to unity. I understand that. It is just that these men are not motivated by simple conviction. This organization or Fellowship has men on their general committee that ARE NOT conservative. I know for a fact. Their churches are the most liberal in the area! So, how can it be just about conviction and holiness! No, friend that may be their battle cry, but it isn't the true motive. That is for sure. Try politics...position... Now that is my opinion. But it seems very obvious. I may not be as old as you are, but I know some things as well! And...those things did not come from this forum!

The UPC is a very diverse group. Literally from one end of the spectrum to the other. I believe that is one of the things that makes us great. I certainly don't agree with eveything my brethren do or the nieghboring church does. There are instances where there MAY need to be restrictions on fellowship, but in my expirience that is few and far between.

I believe in teaching my people to live for GOd for themselves. Get your convictions for you! Don't pay attention to what the other church is doing as far as your convictions. There are hipocrites in EVERY church! I've got to learn to keep my eyes on God not them. Just as Peter stepped out of the boat and took his eyes off of Jesus and sunk....so will I if I take my eyes off of Jesus. I am not sure if always sheltering folks from reality is the best way to protect them. (jmo)

Steadfast....You pastor with great wisdom and I applaud you for seeking to protect your folks. But, I don't believe that is the same thing as this Tulsa business! Not the same at all!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Renda,

I am by no means a spokesman or apologist for the WWPF, though I am acquainted with some of the men involved, and have friends going that way.

But I do think I have some understanding of their thinking.

I am sure there are men involved whose motives and intents aren't 100% pristine. My knowledge of human nature tells me that.

But there has been a feeling shared by many that the UPC is drifting to the left. I think it probably is myself. In fact, there really is no denying that. The questions are, how far will it drift, and how fast? And how is this drift going to affect me and my local fellowship?

Some of the men putting this thing together live in places where the things they deal with at district events is a far cry from what I see. And if I were in those locations, I might have a different point of view than I do now.

The concern expressed by many going Tulsa way is direction. Where are the changes the UPC is undergoing leading? Will the UPC my kids see in 20 years be something I would want them being connected to?

Obviously, we see things very differently regarding these matters, but I share some of the concerns of the Tulsa brethren. It just happens that I am in a rather isolated and extremely conservative area, and our people aren't much affected by the goings on in more "progressive" venues.

From your keyboard to the ears of God! I sure hope you are right. Perhaps with these conservative men now off doing their own thing (I give them a honeymoon period of a year or two then they will be fussing and fighting with each other over so called "holiness standards") the UPC will live up to it's potential to bring the Oneness Jesus Name message to the world.

Initially the UPC will appear more conservative though, I believe, as it reacts to the Tulsa Worldwide Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness Movement Incorporated. There will be more "holding the fort" messages than ever but hopefully over time you and the other cons and ultra cons who have been bemoaning the "drift to the left" will be proven right as common sense, logic, and Biblical principles will prevail.

[rgcraig]

Bro. Epley,

Don't forget to start a Day Three

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by CC1

Initially the UPC will appear more conservative though, I believe, as it reacts to the Tulsa Worldwide Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness Movement Incorporated. There will be more "holding the fort" messages than ever but hopefully over time you and the other cons and ultra cons who have been bemoaning the "drift to the left" will be proven right as common sense, logic, and Biblical principles will prevail.

That's already happening.

Anthony Mangun attempted to shore up the conservative base at BOTT a couple weeks ago.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Bro. Epley,

Don't forget to start a Day Three

The info is nearly non-existent I accused them of forming a secret society.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by CC1

From your keyboard to the ears of God! I sure hope you are right. Perhaps with these conservative men now off doing their own thing (I give them a honeymoon period of a year or two then they will be fussing and fighting with each other over so called "holiness standards") the UPC will live up to it's potential to bring the Oneness Jesus Name message to the world.

Initially the UPC will appear more conservative though, I believe, as it reacts to the Tulsa Worldwide Apostolic Pentecostal Holiness Movement Incorporated. There will be more "holding the fort" messages than ever but hopefully over time you and the other cons and ultra cons who have been bemoaning the "drift to the left" will be proven right as common sense, logic, and Biblical principles will prevail.

LOL...

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The info is nearly non-existent I accused them of forming a secret society.

LOL!!!!!!!