Tulsa Report Day 2

[Sister Alvear]

Since I belong to neither and have friends in both I pray for all involved.

[George]

Originally Posted by Barb

Here I am...LOL!!

Listen, George, you may think you know the facts here, but trust me...you do NOT!!

Here are the facts for the record:

Following the GC of 1979, Bro. NJ Wilson was asked by the powers that be over Harvest Time to become the main HT speaker.

Though Bro. Urshan had been the speaker and yet pastored, 'they' had made the decision that the new speaker not pastor as to devote his time to the broadcast and all that it involved.

Bro. W felt it was the will of God for he and his family at the time and resigned in October of that year...we (the members of South Flint Tabernacle) were devastated.

Bro. & Sis. W stayed in St. Louis about a year when he felt the call to Sacramento.

He did NOT convince anyone to move to CA...no not one!!

Several families did, but not by his urging.

Following his resignation from SFT, I was the first to leave, opting to align with the COOLJC for almost 24 years.

For me, as well as those who moved to CA and TX, the reasons we left were personal.

Those who moved bag and baggage to CA did so because they wanted to continue to sit under his ministry.

Though I disagree with him on many issues, the WPF being one of them, if he were here now, he would STILL be my pastor.

Some people just generate that kind of respect, and for the bystander, it is hard to understand, but I hope this will set your gift of suspicion to rest.

Just as it has taken all this time to get to Tulsa from Houston to organize the WPF, it took time for people to sell and relocate. NW is a very smart man. He knew what he was doing. Saving enough time to get everything in place for starting a church in California. Obviously he influenced those people to leave Michigan and follow.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

This is the best post I have seen since Tampa.

It accurately synopsizes events leading up to, during and immediately after the passing of resolution four.

I agree. The wordsmiths and propoganda machine has been quite busy.

Take a lesson from history. Hitler did not want to conquer the world. He had nothing against the Czechs, Poles, French or anyone else. He just wanted some "living space" where the great German people, the Master Race, could take their rightful place of divine appointment and bless the world with little blond haired blue eyed supermen.

In fact, he was so good at it that British PM Chamberlain came back from Tulsa... oops I mean Munich proclaiming we have "peace in our time". What a great meeting that was, by all accounts (except of course the Czechs)! The Germans and the rest of Europe could live side by side peacfully. WW II promptly erupted and destroyed much of Europe.

I would never equate these men with Hitler. My point is to say, watch what is done, study the backtrail, and ignore the propaganda.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by George

Just as it has taken all this time to get to Tulsa from Houston to organize the WPF, it took time for people to sell and relocate. NW is a very smart man. He knew what he was doing. Saving enough time to get everything in place for starting a church in California. Obviously he influenced those people to leave Michigan and follow.

And you were there, sir?!

How many of those people do you PERSONALLY know?!

How many have you broken bread with?!

Trust me that I know whereof I speak...it didn't happen.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

BroGibs brings up what seems to be the point of most pertinence to me. Where does this go from here? To just an outside observer like myself the signals from the Tulsa meeting are mixed and double minded at best. At the one hand, it seems the Tulsa-nites aren't really prepared to make the leap and disassociate themselves with the UPCI, but are inclined to offer local certifications to minister within the WPF.

Surely they don't intend to operate as the WPF, all the while trying to operate within the UPCI as well. Rational men would agree there's no need for the WPF if they intend on remaining in the UPCI.

I think the organizers and a significant number of those attending the first Tulsa meeting are not only prepared but are eager to make the leap to disassociate themselves from the UPC.

These are folks who by the very nature of their conservative beliefs have a "holier than thou" perspective. Their disdain for what they perceive as "liberalness" in the UPC has been growing for years.

They discovered they did not have the number of votes to gain power to stop all the things that bother them like the use of video, lighting, smoke, music that is not Southern Gospel, etc.

Their only alternative was to do their own thing and that they have done. I am sure many from pure motives and some from deep seated resentment over having come close but never having attained position and power in the UPC.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by CC1

I think the organizers and a significant number of those attending the first Tulsa meeting are not only prepared but are eager to make the leap to disassociate themselves from the UPC.

These are folks who by the very nature of their conservative beliefs have a "holier than thou" perspective. Their disdain for what they perceive as "liberalness in the UPC has been growing for years.

They discovered they did not have the number of votes to gain power to stop all the things that bother them like the use of video, lighting, smoke, music that is not Southern Gospel, etc.

Their only alternative was to do their own thing and that they have done. I am sure many from pure motives and some from deep seated resentment over having come close but never having attained position and power in the UPC.

There are deep differences that exist in some of the above mentioned areas. These are some potential future battlegrounds for the newly formed WPF. You might be suprised by how "liberal" some are in these areas. They might make some "liberals" in other areas scream "comprimise"!

[Parkbench]

Come summer time, realization that much of the Tusla sound was of brass and tinkling cymbals; will create a longing in the hearts of some who went there to return to a good old UPC Camp meeting.

Many a church will then find their old pastor showing forth a more repentant, understanding, humble and compasssionate heart............after he sees the error of Tulsa.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Parkbench

Come summer time, realization that much of the Tusla sound was of brass and tinkling cymbals; will create a longing in the hearts of some who went there to return to a good old UPC Camp meeting.

Many a church will then find their old pastor showing forth a more repentant, understanding, humble and compasssionate heart............after he sees the error of Tulsa.

I thought you were UPC and that the UPC didn't allow members to smoke dope!

(On as serious note you are at best delusional or totally out of touch with the UPC if you don't think these guys are dead serious and this has not been in the works for years. There may be a handful who do as you say but most will not)

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by Parkbench

Come summer time, realization that much of the Tusla sound was of brass and tinkling cymbals; will create a longing in the hearts of some who went there to return to a good old UPC Camp meeting.

Many a church will then find their old pastor showing forth a more repentant, understanding, humble and compasssionate heart............after he sees the error of Tulsa.

However unlikely, some may see the error of rushing to such a monmuental decision, but men who place so much stock in being "right" are not about to admit they were wrong. Don't expect them to come back.

The die is cast, and even if they do return, they will find that they have suffered a considerable loss of influence among the UPCI bethren. Who will follow them. I certainly will not!

Knowing it will never be as before, expect them to remain out.

[BroGibs]

There are those who will say they are unhappy with the UPCI. But truth be told they will never be happy, with UPC, WAF or any other group!!