Tulsa Report Day 2 - Page 45

StMark · #**441** 01-28-2008, 01:01 AM

Oh Lawd!! There is some very interesting discussion going on here!

Let me grab something to eat and then get back and catch up with this

connielori · #**442** 01-28-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorD

If your going to stomp around in your high heels saying, "UUUmmmmmm" at least know what your talking about.

...."Pastor" ? ....very sad.

Aquila · #**443** 01-28-2008, 01:14 AM

I know of a pastor in Huber Heights OH who openly denied over the pulpit that he knew anything about his name being on the leadership list for the WWPF. Booker assured everyone in Tulsa that each man on the list was consulted and placed on the list with their full permission. Why have so many been so dishonest about their involvement in this new fellowship? You can't launch a church fellowship based on dishonesty.

#**444** 01-28-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

Real easy to say, but not so easy to do. There are plenty of folks who call me pastor, and probably you too, who suffer from selective submission. They submit as long as they agree.

Names on a page are a good start though.

I can't figure out the reasoning in some posts... or some mindsets for that matter. It wouldn't matter what was said or how many angel's wings brushed by that morsel of truth on it's way to inhabit the atmosphere of Earth around us... some are a Master of disputing things that can't be proven.

So far we've learned that...

It can't be a genuine conviction because it's all about 'control'. Doesn't matter that some men really DO have convictions that they live by.
It can't be true that they actually submit to someone. Even if they say they do, well, they probably don't in real life.
It can't really be a move of God there in Tulsa. It has to be the hype of preaching standards that has them worked up into a frenzy.

You know, folks, these men are doing what you folks say can't be done. They are building sucessful Churches along the way. They evidently are doing something right as I've been to most of their Churches and they have Apostolic Church with a real move of God.

I just find it hard to imagine that they are being slaughtered on forums when any legitimate reasoning would tell us that these men all have 'corn in the crib'. It reminds me of a few years ago when the hurricane destroyed our Church and damaged so many homes in our city. Before we left there was a certain faction of people who kept claiming, "There ain't NO hurricane gonna reach us all the way up here!".

But it succeeded in spite of what men claimed.

No, I may not have been in Tulsa but I - and most everyone else I care enough to be around - agree with their right to do what they feel is right. And to judge the motives, claim to know more about their personal convictions then they, themselves, and to claim some discernment over the depth of their submission to a Pastor or spiritual authority... is arrogance of the highest order.

In this, Brethren, we do not well.

Sunni · #**445** 01-28-2008, 01:21 AM

Errr...my sunny side has dissolved...

I accept that many of you have dissenting opinions about Tulsa... I even enjoy reading the viewpoints sometimes of the intelligent or common sense posters for either side...In addition, I highly respect ministers who send their cards to Hazelwood and now also those who mail to Tulsa...

However, those who claim to know the hearts of the Tulsa organizers are wrong- you do not. Many of us, however, know some or all of the Tulsa 6... (However on a different scale than those who claim to be their friends and then proceed to demolish their characters- Or those who do not judge, but think they can speak for them because they preached for them, or they spoke with them one time, or et. etc. etc. etc.)

Many of the Tulsa six are beloved Men of God...for a reason. Some of us, including me, have often sat with them, laughed with them, and even been pastored by them... To some of you, that apparently makes me a spiritual sissie under the leadership of a legalistic dictator... anyway....

I can say this about one of them in particular- he loves souls more than anyone I have ever known...I am a Bible College grad, and have been under many ministers, but he has taught me more than anyone about sacrifice and love for the lost. He has mentored my husband as he first ventured into ministry, and he built a church in a city without truth...he is not the only one. You do not know all their sacrifices...you do not know their relationship with God, you do not know their motives, and you certainly do not know their hearts!

There are saints that read these words (the Tulsa 6 have seen many souls saved under their ministries- do you doubt that?) and hurt to see the motives of men questioned so acidly. These are men who heard the cry of a city and answered; who sacrificed and gave years of their lives in storefront churches, working alternate jobs, raising families where they knew so few, and living for the weekend when maybe the waitress they invited and then laid beside their bed and prayed for that night would show up and fill an empty chair... You did not see the tears in their eyes as she prayed through to the Holy Ghost, and you did not hear the sobbing of intercessory pastor when he saw souls slide...

Some of these men are pastoring very obviously successful churches- how sad that you think that can be done by men who 'only desire power and prestige.' Power trips and prestige parties do not build churches...Can I get a true church planter to say "Amen"!? .... You may wonder at the reason they felt the need to step out, and you may even disagree- that is life- but apply some logic... A few of you seem to enjoy dissecting fictional hearts!

I know some of the men...They have EARNED my respect by their love for souls... A love that I have witnessed repeatedly first hand...I know them, but not their hearts- only God does... I do, however, know that I trust their hearts in this matter... You may not know them enough to trust their judgement- I understand that.

Just remember- some of the six are or have been pastors...with pastors' hearts...Organizations of WPF or UPC does not change the fact that they go home and sit at the sides of grieving families, they visit the sick, they pray for their sheep, they reach out even when they are weary, they keep pushing on for that next soul... THEY PASTOR...and when a man does that right, he earns the love of his saints and those he mentors... I do know personally, that some of these men are doing that right, witnessed by the love of their true friends and saints...

That speaks louder to me than any of you who 'claim' to know their hearts...

The Dean · #**446** 01-28-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

Real easy to say, but not so easy to do. There are plenty of folks who call me pastor, and probably you too, who suffer from selective submission. They submit as long as they agree.

Names on a page are a good start though.

That's a problem that every one of us who Pastor have to deal with. However, while a problem for sure, can you honestly say that genuine submission can't be attained?

Why do we perceive the worst in men who do things different than us?

PastorD · #**447** 01-28-2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connielori

Pastor D and George,

You would do well to know your facts.....
I am married to one of the ones who moved from Mi to Ca. You are SOOOOO mistaken. Bro. Wilson NEVER has EVER asked, hinted, or 'seduced' anyone to leave MI and follow him to CA.
I sense a whole lot of jealousy, envy, or some kind of bitterness....when people can so freely spew untruths around.
Thank you Barb for telling it like it REALLY IS.
It's so sad to me that these kind of TOTAL LIES can be spread everywhere.

You might go back and read. PastorD said nothing about anyone moving from here to there. I just welcomed Barb from stage left as I knew she would be here to defend the history she lived.

It is a forum folks . . . 'reading' is the key to its success.

StMark · #**448** 01-28-2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorD

You might go back and read. PastorD said nothing about anyone moving from here to there. I just welcomed Barb from stage left as I knew she would be here to defend the history she lived.

It is a forum folks . . . 'reading' is the key to its success.

You seem a little irritable tonight