Tulsa Report Day 2

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

The core of UPCI has the exact same track record!

Well...

Tampa could be the beginning of a different direction, Pianoman. I hope not.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I served for two years, ending this past May.

Thanks! I thought you might have known a relative of mine, but he was probably leaving as you were coming on.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Thanks! I thought you might have known a relative of mine, but he was probably leaving as you were coming on.

I might know him.

PM me if you like.

Your id will remain confidential.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The men who founded the WWPF have proven track records that makes their direction a matter of public knowledge.

It is the direction of the UPC that some question, with certain changes taking place.

What "certain changes" to you allude to? Res. #4 perhaps being one. But are there more "changes" in the UPC that disturb you? And what are they?

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I might know him.

PM me if you like.

Your id will remain confidential.

Just pm'd you!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What "certain changes" to you allude to? Res. #4 perhaps being one. But are there more "changes" in the UPC that disturb you? And what are they?

Resolution 4 is in my opinion a symptom of what troubles me, moreso than the substance of what troubles me.

I am hesitant to say too much in this medium, because of how easy it is to be misunderstood and quoted out of context. I have been burned pretty bad that way a time or two. But you asked, so here goes...

I think we are losing our sense of uniqueness as a people. We are plagued by a craving for the acceptance and affirmation of the world Jesus said would hate us.

I don't think we should try to be offensive in our manner or our presentation of the Gospel, but the truth is He is referred to as a rock of offense, and s stone of stumbling. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can get all cozy with the trinitarians and the denominational world and still please God.

I think we are reaping the results of a couple of decades of men screaming "Revival!" at all our big meetings rather than preaching and teaching something that would have helped us a lot more--like evangelism and righteousness.

We took down the sign that identified us as the carriers of the message of the Mighty God in Christ and traded it for the sign that said "Revival!"

I believe in revival if I believe in anything, but I'm afraid we are hooked on hype and are willing to swallow most anything if it gives us a false sense of the signifigance in the eyes of the world that we so desperately crave.

I think we are so concerned with being "relevant" to the world that we are in danger of becoming irrelevant to the plan of God.

I don't think we place nearly enough emphasis on the Teacher in the five fold ministry. We like entertainment oriented preaching much better.

We place more value on what appears to be success, I'm afraid, than we do on character. It sways the crowds better and produces better offerings.

We are in love with the machinery of the organization so much that we have a hard time seeing how dysfunctional it is becoming.

There.

That's a start. That ought to be enough to get me shot full of holes from both, or rather all, sides.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Resolution 4 is in my opinion a symptom of what troubles me, moreso than the substance of what troubles me.

I am hesitant to say too much in this medium, because of how easy it is to be misunderstood and quoted out of context. I have been burned pretty bad that way a time or two. But you asked, so here goes...

I think we are losing our sense of uniqueness as a people. We are plagued by a craving for the acceptance and affirmation of the world Jesus said would hate us.

I don't think we should try to be offensive in our manner or our presentation of the Gospel, but the truth is He is referred to as a rock of offense, and s stone of stumbling. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can get all cozy with the trinitarians and the denominational world and still please God.

I think we are reaping the results of a couple of decades of men screaming "Revival!" at all our big meetings rather than preaching and teaching something that would have helped us a lot more--like evangelism and righteousness.

We took down the sign that identified us as the carriers of the message of the Mighty God in Christ and traded it for the sign that said "Revival!"

I believe in revival if I believe in anything, but I'm afraid we are hooked on hype and are willing to swallow most anything if it gives us a false sense of the signifigance in the eyes of the world that we so desperately crave.

I think we are so concerned with being "relevant" to the world that we are in danger of becoming irrelevant to the plan of God.

I don't think we place nearly enough emphasis on the Teacher in the five fold ministry. We like entertainment oriented preaching much better.

We place more value on what appears to be success, I'm afraid, than we do on character. It sways the crowds better and produces better offerings.

We are in love with the machinery of the organization so much that we have a hard time seeing how dysfunctional it is becoming.

There.

That's a start. That ought to be enough to get me shot full of holes from both, or rather all, sides.

For the most part I completely see what you are saying here. Where we might differ is that I think our uniqueness can be seen in our fruits, our example - - there is something different about a spirit filled person that has a close relationship with God and it's not their hair and skirt.

I also believe the focus is wrong - - shouldn't be on orgs and fellowships, but saving the lost.

Good post.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Resolution 4 is in my opinion a symptom of what troubles me, moreso than the substance of what troubles me.

I am hesitant to say too much in this medium, because of how easy it is to be misunderstood and quoted out of context. I have been burned pretty bad that way a time or two. But you asked, so here goes...

I think we are losing our sense of uniqueness as a people. We are plagued by a craving for the acceptance and affirmation of the world Jesus said would hate us.

I don't think we should try to be offensive in our manner or our presentation of the Gospel, but the truth is He is referred to as a rock of offense, and s stone of stumbling. We are fooling ourselves if we think we can get all cozy with the trinitarians and the denominational world and still please God.

I think we are reaping the results of a couple of decades of men screaming "Revival!" at all our big meetings rather than preaching and teaching something that would have helped us a lot more--like evangelism and righteousness.

We took down the sign that identified us as the carriers of the message of the Mighty God in Christ and traded it for the sign that said "Revival!"

I believe in revival if I believe in anything, but I'm afraid we are hooked on hype and are willing to swallow most anything if it gives us a false sense of the signifigance in the eyes of the world that we so desperately crave.

I think we are so concerned with being "relevant" to the world that we are in danger of becoming irrelevant to the plan of God.

I don't think we place nearly enough emphasis on the Teacher in the five fold ministry. We like entertainment oriented preaching much better.

We place more value on what appears to be success, I'm afraid, than we do on character. It sways the crowds better and produces better offerings.

We are in love with the machinery of the organization so much that we have a hard time seeing how dysfunctional it is becoming.

There.

That's a start. That ought to be enough to get me shot full of holes from both, or rather all, sides.

I think that I generally agree with your assessment. The entertainment factor being more important than the substance in some of our preaching seems to be an issue. I think (hope?) that we may just be going through different phases and fads in that regard. And while that's not good, I suppose it's how human beings have always been.

On the "unique" aspects of our identity I think it's really a mixed bag. Folks do want to know some of the "why's and wherefore's" about how they dress and the things that they interact with. I think we may be reaping some fruit from our inablity to provide good answers in the past.

To tell a kid he can't go to Six Flags with his cousins just because "I said so..." doesn't instill real values. And then for that kid to see the folks that told him not to go to Six Flags off in Silver Dollar City for a weekend will probably raise even more questions.

There are rock solid principles that we must cling to. These are the things that the Apostolic Church clung to and that believers in other ages held on to in perilous times. Because we have a cacaphony of voices and standards that drastically vary before you even get out of the county would seem to say that as a people we haven't really gotten ahold of those eternal principles. Or more likely, that we do have a hold of them but we have grasped a bunch of other stuff as well.

[IAintMovin]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have risen and said, "No." And for that Steadfast has said that I "lack integrity."

Better still, I humbly submit the matter to Brother Steadfast's own conscience. .

Hey, Pelathais.........why did you go and change this post??????????

I thought we were not supposed to threaten people on here.............makes me say a huge ........... HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..............

Oh how I love the consistancy of the AFF.................

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

Hey, Pelathais.........why did you go and change this post??????????

I thought we were not supposed to threaten people on here.............makes me say a huge ........... HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..............

Oh how I love the consistancy of the AFF.................

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have risen and said, "No." And for that Steadfast has said that I "lack integrity."

Better still, I humbly submit the matter to Brother Steadfast's own conscience.

My mouth is hanging open.