Do you consider a fundamentalist, out of touch?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Realizing when you step outside of your cirlces... their are much bigger circles in the world?

I agree ... a lot bigger circles ... however my view of the Body is a lot bigger than yours, Dr. V.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

So cutting is okay ... just not the length of her hair ...

Care to define this phrase?

This is not a fundamentalist view, you know ... at least in our circles

It is the view of groups like Herbert Armstrong's WCG.

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Realizing when you step outside of your cirlces... their are much bigger circles in the world?

Can you please define "not cutting the length of her hair" ... ???

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

I believe its a personal call between she and her husband... I have no problem with my wife letting her hair grow long and maintaining it.... if she desires to thin it out,. which does not require cutting the length... if she desires to trim the dead ends... which will not shorten the hair only cause it to grow longer.. then I have no problem with that... its keeping in the Spirit of the Word.. of having long hair

Dan, he tried here.

[Nahum]

Brother Vaughn,

I will attempt to say this with as much restraint and respect as possible.

Sir, I believe you are a fraud. I don't know if this fraud is intentional, or if you have just misrepresented yourself so much, for so long, that you now identify with the misrepresentation instead of what is real.

You say so many things that we eventually find out are completely false. You post positions you don't really believe. You are confused about your education experiences. We've seen enough to determine what your character really is.

For the record, a person so adamantly opposed to women preachers would have never left those pictures up on the MySpace page.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Brother Vaughn,

I will attempt to say this with as much restraint and respect as possible.

Sir, I believe you are a fraud. I don't know if this fraud is intentional, or if you have just misrepresented yourself so much, for so long, that you now identify with the misrepresentation instead of what is real.

You say so many things that we eventually find out are completely false. You post positions you don't really believe. You are confused about your education experiences. We've seen enough to determine what your character really is.

For the record, a person so adamantly opposed to women preachers would have never left those pictures up on the MySpace page.

Glad you used much restraint -

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This discussion is veering from the original statement you made as a fundamentalist ... that women should not preach ...

Many Christians maintain women need to submit to men in the divine order ...

So ... I think it's moot to talk about positions ... but rather what you think preaching is ... as a verb .... and why that's a male thing ... and not a female thing.

What makes a women speaking at the pulpit teaching ... and not preaching ...

Or at the supermarket for that matter?

Dan that is actually a great question and one that I have pondered many times.. until I see Paul basically giving us the description of preaching

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Notive the punctuation after PREACH THE WORD.. he is continuing the thought.. and thus the explanation of PREACHING THE WORD ---REPROVING, by the way look up the original meaning of reproving a pretty powerful word,, very authorative..... REBUKE - should a sister ever rebuke a man of God? Preaching is also exhorting with doctrine...... doctrine brings correction of our error.. should a sister ever be correcting a man of God in scripture?

thanks

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Brother Vaughn,

I will attempt to say this with as much restraint and respect as possible.

Sir, I believe you are a fraud. I don't know if this fraud is intentional, or if you have just misrepresented yourself so much, for so long, that you now identify with the misrepresentation instead of what is real.

You say so many things that we eventually find out are completely false. You post positions you don't really believe. You are confused about your education experiences. We've seen enough to determine what your character really is.

For the record, a person so adamantly opposed to women preachers would have never left those pictures up on the MySpace page.

And while I 'm at it there is something else that really bothers me about your posts. It bothers me that you are a doctor and can't spell any better than a sixth grader. That, and your grammar and composition is atrocious.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

I believe its a personal call between she and her husband... I have no problem with my wife letting her hair grow long and maintaining it.... if she desires to thin it out,. which does not require cutting the length... if she desires to trim the dead ends... which will not shorten the hair only cause it to grow longer.. then I have no problem with that... its keeping in the Spirit of the Word.. of having long hair

Keeping w/ the spirit of the law ... or Word ... is not fundamentalist .. as you have defined it ... or being literal to to the Word.

Furthermore you have implicated that a woman cannot cut her hair but allow for it ...

Also trimming dead ends does not ensure that hair will grow longer ... although can contribute to it's health.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

Dan that is actually a great question and one that I have pondered many times.. until I see Paul basically giving us the description of preaching

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Notive the punctuation after PREACH THE WORD.. he is continuing the thought.. and thus the explanation of PREACHING THE WORD ---REPROVING, by the way look up the original meaning of reproving a pretty powerful word,, very authorative..... REBUKE - should a sister ever rebuke a man of God? Preaching is also exhorting with doctrine...... doctrine brings correction of our error.. should a sister ever be correcting a man of God in scripture?

thanks

Please define teaching for me ...??? And the word doctrine???

Other than this one text used in isolation please share the Greek and Hebrew meaning of preaching ...

and how your definition of preaching fits to other contexts in which the verb "to preach" is used in Scripture.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Dr. Vaughn

To all of the wonderful friends and foes who post on this forum.... I want to say first of all how sorry I am if my words have offended either of you. I suppose out here you feel more at liberty to let your expressions lose since there is no personal interaction, there's no facial expressions to tell when you have hurt someone, there's no fear of having to interact with that person in the future and thus you're not as careful in the way you speak.....

I would like for this board to know... one minute with me in person and you and I would be friends for life. Anyone who has ever met me will tell you there is not a time when my smile is not from ear to ear, making everyone laugh and keeping peoples Spirits high... I love people, I love Gods church and most importantly I love God.

Here is my question..... If someone like myself is a Fundametalist.. and what I mean by that is, we take a very literal interpretation of Gods Word.. we don't do well with "We'll it really means this or that or in the original it doesn't mean that.. we find safety in taking as much of the Word at face value as possible... and if by chance we have it wrong.. we feel facing God without Greek or Hebrew knowledge would not be counted against us.....

Rather than try to find ways "Around" the Word... I am one who feels safe in reading the WORD and living it exactly as I read it... I am not condoning ignorance.. education is something I preach and believe in vehemntly.. but sometimes I do wonder if "much learning has not made us mad."

Now, my question for this board.... why is it that if someone like me who is very fundamental is so reviled? I realize my opinions are contrary to the mainstream but is was not so just years ago with my forefather.....

Had I made these statements just 30 years ago

A woman should not preach
Men should not remarry if they are divorced
Women should not cut their hair

my statements would have been in accordance with the times... but of course now in this age those statements are considered mean and unmerciful

When it comes to the marriage issue,, it is not easy for me to make the stand I do... My father is on his 4th, my mother is on her 3rd, my grandmother is on her 2nd and I was ALMOST on my 2nd... before I heard a man of God preach on the issue of Marriage and Divorce.. before that time I TRULY did not have a strong biblical foundation on the issue....

I made my stand after much study and soul searching..... for me to tell you that I believe my own Father is in sin.. is NOT EASY...... but I feel compelled to face God with a clear conscience that I said it AS I SAW IT...

If God is going to judge us by obeying what we read or obeying what we should have known the Passage REALLY MEANT.. will we not all be in trouble?

Again.,,, why is there no more room in the kingdom for men such as myself who believe in MERCY.. were it not for his mercy I would on my way to hell in a hurry... I LOVE MERCY I believe IN MERCY but I do not believe that MERCY is a LICENSE to deliberately disobey Gods Word.....

For the record.. if a man and woman has remarried,, I would always counsel them to remain as you are.... but with the knowledge you now have you must NEVER REMARRy.... Is that being cruel? Is that being hateful? or is that being faithful to Gods Word....

I bless all of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ

Your Brother in Christ
[/LIST]

Brother Vaughn, there has been a dramatic change over the last thirty years, in that people have become much more educated on the Word of God. The availability of information is such as it has never before been in history. When people study scriptures used to defend traditionally held beliefs, and find what they've been told doesn't match up with what they've found while studying, it makes maintaining the status quo an impossibility.

With knowledge comes power. It used to be that, concerning religious issues, those in leadership were the ones with all the power to decide what was right and what was wrong. That's changed so much over the last 30 years. Christians have watched preacher after preacher fail and have decided to take that power back. It's no longer enough for the preacher to say it's such and thus. People do not have the confidence they once had in leadership, so they make these types of decisions for themselves, hopefully prayerfully and in the fear and admonition of the Lord. I don't think that's such a bad thing, Brother.