To All CAF'ers, EA'ers, and AFF'ers

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Tyrel Sackett

The way that you posted this thread is insinuating that you got off of CAF due to the overwhelming opinion of ministers that were against interacial marriages. That is not the truth..

It's evident you don't read entire post.

Originally Posted by Tyrel Sackett

I ask the question: You got of of CAF because 20% disagreed with you? What kind of joke is that? I did read that you said one of the "many" reasons, but I kind of find it hilarious that 20% of CAF would disagree with you and you get your feeling hurt and run off...

I didn't run off, that would actually require leg movement. I resigned for various reasons, and interracial marriage was hardly the cause.

Originally Posted by Tyrel Sackett

my reason for stating this is that you make it sound as if the overwhelming majority opposes the interacial marriage. That is obviously not true.

Quote my comment that generates assumption of yours truly accusing the majority of CAF. I await your response!

[Felicity]

I'm so thankful I was raised free of racial discrimination. Never heard it or saw it exampled in our home outside of a few comments once in a while about the French being ignorant. LOL! (I grew up, as a child, in a city that was about 50% French/English).

I just can't imagine someone being against racial discrimination but will discriminate against their own brothers and sisters in the Church for other reasons. Seems like that would be just a wee bit hypocritical.

[Tyrel Sackett]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

I'm about to post this on EA in response to an interracial marriage thread. This was one of many reasons I resigned membership on CAF.

I hope you CAF'ers read this too!


I'll start by openly declaring I'm for interracial marriages! Sadly, I'm acquainted with pastors and even saints which refuse to acknowledge interracial marriages, and advise against it. The despicable excuses utilized to advise against interracial marriages are 'think of society and/or culture, what will they say" or "think of the children, it will be hard on them growing up."

To pastors and saints adhering to the idiotic excuses above, to them I reply in the following fashion. Sir/Mrs/Ms, if you're worried what society/culture might think, you best leave the church and train your children in the ways of sin!

Attention readers, society has already ostracized us! We're already ridiculed and condemned for serving and obeying God! Being ridiculed for interracial marriage shouldn't make anymore of a difference. Children and teens are still ridiculed for dressing holy, not participating in certain events, and being identified as a pentecostal! My Goodness, we're already accused of being demoniacally possessed for speaking in tongues!

I'll boldly state I forbid society to dictate the love shared between any Holy Ghost filled interracial couple!

Any I'll leave the following message to those whom are against interracial marriage. Matthew 19:6 reads "..... What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

When you prevent or advise against marriage between saints, due solely to ethnicity, you're in direct violation of God's divine mandate! You're also found on dangerous ground by putting asunder what God has joined together!

I think these so-called Pentecostals bearing these excuses have deeper underlying issues and need a real Holy-Ghost experience.

Blessings,
Bro. A.C.

First off, I am not posting concerning the pros and cons for interracial marriages. I have not brought that up. I have stated that interracial marriages do not bother me. What bothered me is that you misrepresented CAF. You have tried to back track out of it, but it plainly states that you got off of CAF for this reason and "many" others as well.

I find it hard to believe that you would get off of CAF because 6 voted that they did not agree with interracial marriages. Thus, I feel, that you are insinuating to the members here of AFF that an most of CAF (that group of rabid conservative preachers) men of God preach / teach against interracial marriages. It is a subliminal thought that you are using against another forum to try and degrade it. It is your right to leave, but why not be Christian enough about it and leave in good stands instead of running degrading it whether it would be subliminal or not.

Folks, there were only six that voted against it and no on took a biblical stand. It was opinionated just as Praxeas has stated in a previous post (even though he in not there to read them).

Next: you resigned for various reasons and interracial marriage was "hardly the cause"???? Again, I bolded and put in red your words.

Finally, the assumption can be found right in paragraph number 1. You stated that you resigned membership with CAF due to interracial marriage differences and many other things. I'm sorry, I don't get it. Why would SIX votes and NO biblical reasoning cause one to use THIS excuse as a reason for leaving. It is simply because you wanted AFF to think that more than SIX stood against interracial marriages on CAF.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Tyrel Sackett

No. I do not. For the most part, it is not a biblical doctrine as much as it is a personal preference.

If you don't think 20% of a [hypothetical] group of Apostolics opposing interracial relationships is disturbing, then I don't know what your thought process is on this, brother.

I personally know people who've been affected by such attitudes in the church, and I know from scripture there's just no place for it in God's church. I believe such attitudes are wrong on multiple levels, and too many Apostolics have been making excuses for the inexcusable for far too long.

Originally Posted by Tyrel Sackett

For the most part, it is not a biblical doctrine as much as it is a personal preferance.

It's personal preference?
How about maybe "it's prejudice". Why not just call it what it is?

This is specifically bothersome when this stuff comes down from Pastors and others in church leadership, because other people can be influenced to adopt or maintain the same attitude also. Ironically, some of these men claim to be so faithful to the word, and will fight you to the death over precise wording of baptismal formula, mode of baptism, the wording of Godhead doctrine, etc... but will teach and preach racial intolerance regarding relationships between saints of different backgrounds-- even though they know there's no biblical basis for their views. If these men know their bible as much as they claim to, they should know that interracial and inter-ethnic marriage is not only prevalent in the bible, but there's nothing in scripture that forbids it.

**When pastors let it be known they will not officiate marriages between members of their church who are of different races, that goes beyond personal preference. That is prejudice.

**When Pastors discourage Brother X or Sister Y from marrying each other because of their race, that now has gone beyond the pastor's personal preference. That is prejudice. He's not the one getting married; he's not the one who's choosing to settle down with this person. As long as the person's mate is a saint of God who's living right, and both parties have been prayerful about their choice of a spouse, its not his business what the other person's race or ethnic background is. His place at that point is to give solid premarital counsel to this Christian couple --- not try to get them to break off their relationship because of his "personal preference".

**When a certain Bible College makes a rule that if students of different races wish to date each other, the college must first notify their parents first, (yes, a real-life situation that I know of) don't try and tell me there's no prejudice at the root of that.

Originally Posted by Tyrel Sackett

It was stated for the sake of the children and other reasons.

It was "stated" for the sake of the children. Yes, I know it's often stated as such, but let's not be naive and pretend that it's always about "the children". I think common sense tells us that many people will "state" such a reason as a smokescreen to cover up their own intolerance on that issue. Yes, there are times when people do have sincere concerns about the long-term impact it may have on the couple's children, family, etc,... but too often it's just a cop-out.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by Thumper

This is a very interesting thread, albeit a completely irrelevant one. The premise of this thread implies that many or a large portion of poster's on the CA forum are opposed to inter-racial marriage. This is completely false. I have gone back and read the two threads in quetions on CAF, the poll started by this thread starter and another one on the same subject and have found the most are in strong support of interracial marriages. While a few presented some reservations to the idea because the racist tendencies of the communities in which they labour. While I would vehemently disagree with those who hold those positions I have an even bigger problem someone who would intentionally spread false information. Where I come from thats called lying. The poll started on CAF by this AFF thread starter showed that 80% of respondants were in agreement with his position and the very few who didn't admitted that it was certainly not a biblical prohibition but the result of the cultural taboos of the community in which they labour.

80%!!!!


We probably couldn't get 80% of the people on this forum to agree what day it was let alone agree 80% on a subject that been a contentious issue across america since 1865

I'm not a prophet nor the son of a prophet but me thinks that this thread starter has other motivations for this thread.

JMHO

Most of us here wouldn't know whether this is accurate or not since we are not welcome on CAF

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Most of us here wouldn't know whether this is accurate or not since we are not welcome on CAF

Indeed. CAF has a reputation for kicking people out who don't fit the narrow mold of what they consider a 'conservative Apostolic' to be.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I'm so thankful I was raised free of racial discrimination. Never heard it or saw it exampled in our home outside of a few comments once in a while about the French being ignorant. LOL! (I grew up, as a child, in a city that was about 50% French/English).

I just can't imagine someone being against racial discrimination but will discriminate against their own brothers and sisters in the Church for other reasons. Seems like that would be just a wee bit hypocritical.

Ma'am, I've been away for a little bit, but I am glad to see you posting again.


For the record, the Apostolic church I attended in FL was pretty big. Some of the young adults my age and a little younger had a "problem" with inter racial marriages. I remember one guy saying it was not ,"the will of God" for the races to intermingle. One girl saying that the were just too many differences between the cultures. I have heard questions like, "Well why do Black guys want to marry White girls any way-- they should just stick with their own." I have also heard the "think of the kids" argument too. I was even told that the Pastor was against it inter-racial marriages, but I don't believe that to be true at all. My Pastor never gave me that impression at all.

I was a member of this church up until 2006.

Every reason I have ever heard prohibiting inter racial marriages has been bogus. It's either racism or racial prejudice-- either one of these sins has no place in the Body of Christ.



Now if a person of one race simply does not find members of another race attractive, that is not racism or prejudice, imho. For example, I don't find Asians all that attractive. However, if I was ever to find an Asian lady who was saved and I was attracted to her and she was attracted to me, I would not just not date her because she was Asian.

My best friend in high school was an Irish guy who was called "racist" because he stated that he didn't find Black girls attractive.

I stood by him, the accusations blew over because he wasn't racist. I'd say he wasn't even prejudiced in the negative way we use the word at times.

Oh and there is a difference between being prejudiced (even in the racially negative way we use it) and being a racist.

[Tyrel Sackett]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

If you don't think 20% of a [hypothetical] group of Apostolics opposing interracial relationships is disturbing, then I don't know what your thought process is on this, brother.

I personally know people who've been affected by such attitudes in the church, and I know from scripture there's just no place for it in God's church. I believe such attitudes are wrong on multiple levels, and too many Apostolics have been making excuses for the inexcusable for far too long.


It's personal preference?
How about maybe "it's prejudice". Why not just call it what it is?

This is specifically bothersome when this stuff comes down from Pastors and others in church leadership, because other people can be influenced to adopt or maintain the same attitude also. Ironically, some of these men claim to be so faithful to the word, and will fight you to the death over precise wording of baptismal formula, mode of baptism, the wording of Godhead doctrine, etc... but will teach and preach racial intolerance regarding relationships between saints of different backgrounds-- even though they know there's no biblical basis for their views. If these men know their bible as much as they claim to, they should know that interracial and inter-ethnic marriage is not only prevalent in the bible, but there's nothing in scripture that forbids it.

**When pastors let it be known they will not officiate marriages between members of their church who are of different races, that goes beyond personal preference. That is prejudice.

**When Pastors discourage Brother X or Sister Y from marrying each other because of their race, that now has gone beyond the pastor's personal preference. That is prejudice. He's not the one getting married; he's not the one who's choosing to settle down with this person. As long as the person's mate is a saint of God who's living right, and both parties have been prayerful about their choice of a spouse, its not his business what the other person's race or ethnic background is. His place at that point is to give solid premarital counsel to this Christian couple --- not try to get them to break off their relationship because of his "personal preference".

**When a certain Bible College makes a rule that if students of different races wish to date each other, the college must first notify their parents first, (yes, a real-life situation that I know of) don't try and tell me there's no prejudice at the root of that.



It was "stated" for the sake of the children. Yes, I know it's often stated as such, but let's not be naive and pretend that it's always about "the children". I think common sense tells us that many people will "state" such a reason as a smokescreen to cover up their own intolerance on that issue. Yes, there are times when people do have sincere concerns about the long-term impact it may have on the couple's children, family, etc,... but too often it's just a cop-out.

Let's just say that I totally disagree with you. It's not prejudice. It is personal preference.

[Sister Alvear]

Marriage is a LONG time and seeking the will of the Lord is the most important factor...

[Tyrel Sackett]

Originally Posted by Margies3

Most of us here wouldn't know whether this is accurate or not since we are not welcome on CAF

I guess that you will just have to trust the "knowing ones" huh?

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Indeed. CAF has a reputation for kicking people out who don't fit the narrow mold of what they consider a 'conservative Apostolic' to be.

hmmmm.... I wonder who all you've heard of getting kicked off? I know of a few that left because they wanted to, a few that left because they felt too much pressure, but only a very few that may have been kicked off. AND I have to give it to the ADMINS: they have been very patient and kind to thiose that have come in expressing different views. FTR: There are those on CAF who even believe in wedding rings?????????

Yes we have some very good debates and we don't agree with everything that everyone believes, but when it is all said and done, we are gentlemen there.