"50 things I would do - If I were a Pastor"

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Neck

TO MOW and the rest.

My 50 things that I would do.

Are not cuts or slams on what others do.

They are the ultimate items that I would do as a pastor.

Because I do them in my personal business.

I do use Power Point etc only during a presentation.

I do not however have a stack of notes that I have to read.

The presentations are flow freely.

It helps the audience get comfortable.

I have sat in hundrends of hours of boring read each note on the slide presentation.

At the end felt like I was dead....

The teachers and presenters that kpet it fresh.

Taught me so much more then 0's and 1's....

The many times that I have preached over the years.

Did not require me to express my thoughts using notes.

It was done in way that was expressive....

I didn't take any of them as slams or negative in any way. I am only offering another view in addition to yours. For you, notes are not optimal. For me they are optimal. I am sure that you are just as effective because that is you.

That is why I said, if you become a pastor, your list will change. Mine did...for the better...and continues to change for the better. Like you, I have quite a bit of secular training and experience in the corporate world. I was a purchasing executive with huge responsibilities. It all helped me to be what God has called me to be. I'm still working on it.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I didn't take any of them as slams or negative in any way. I am only offering another view in addition to yours. For you, notes are not optimal. For me they are optimal. I am sure that you are just as effective because that is you.

That is why I said, if you become a pastor, your list will change. Mine did...for the better...and continues to change for the better. Like you, I have quite a bit of secular training and experience in the corporate world. I was a purchasing executive with huge responsibilities. It all helped me to be what God has called me to be. I'm still working on it.

Change in me is a for sure thing....

I agree that the secular work and experience helps...

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Neck

Change in me is a for sure thing....

I agree that the secular work and experience helps...

Neck;

I have pastored, done missions and evangelized for years now. I would love to always work without any notes. The problem is, I can't. My memory is not the best in the world. believe in inspiration, and love it to preach. When it comes to teaching, give me notes.

Your list is an ideal to work towards, and then there is reality.

I do agree that many minister need a little more business sense, it would help them out.

I do like your list and I have cut and pasted it to word to study. It shows a thoughtful insight from the pew side.

Thanks TJJJ

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Neck

If I were pastor and someone rambled they would be asked to sit down.

Do not take me not using notes with being unprepared.

I would be very well prepared.

How many times have you seen a singer using notes to sing their song?

Your first thought is they are not preapared.

What does Simon Cowell of American Idol say?

"Forget your words you are going home".

Oh he had a great thought but lost it because he didnt have notes! Age will do that! (he was in his late 60's)

I can not imagine sitting anyone down for rambling, a pastor would just look like a control freak imo.

Our singers do use notes, songs are in a binder, especially helpful when learning a new songs.

[Stephanas]

Originally Posted by rrford

Peanut Gallery Preachers and Grandstand Pastors are lie folks who do not have kids telling folks who do how to raise them.


Not saying some of the points are not good. Some of them are. Some of them are being viewed through double thick rose colored glasses.

Ain't that the truth!

• 10 hours per sermon x three sermons per week equals 30 hours plus 10 hours "in service" time for a total of 40 hours per week before you read a book, pray a prayer, visit a hospital, shuffle paper, counsel, clean, etc, etc, etc, etc. Good bye to the dream of being "Mr Model Family Man."
  
  
• Turning a blind eye to the list of supporters of the church is irresponsible. The end result is to allow the direction of the congregation to be determined by people who don't care enough to invest in the mission of the Church. Trustees who freeload, Sunday School teachers without enough faith to invest in the church, worship leaders who have no sacrifice on the altar. Sounds like a fine mess to me.
  
  
• A true open door policy in a church office is an invitation to insanity. It's laughable really. Say good-bye to the ten hours of sermon preparation and say hello to the retired, unemployed, bored, and people who measure their importance by being the pastor's buddy - they'll take turns walking through that open door, every single day.
  
  
• Six months in a pastorate would work wonders with this list and its thinly veiled criticisms of working pastors. It's easy to criticize the guys in the trenches, but arm chair generals don't win wars.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Oh he had a great thought but lost it because he didnt have notes! Age will do that! (he was in his late 60's)

I can not imagine sitting anyone down for rambling, a pastor would just look like a control freak imo.

Our singers do use notes, songs are in a binder, especially helpful when learning a new songs.

Even with notes I miss stuff and skip stuff.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Stephanas

Ain't that the truth!

• 10 hours per sermon x three sermons per week equals 30 hours plus 10 hours "in service" time for a total of 40 hours per week before you read a book, pray a prayer, visit a hospital, shuffle paper, counsel, clean, etc, etc, etc, etc. Good bye to the dream of being "Mr Model Family Man."...
  

I remember hearing the pastor of the Willow Creek Church (not sure of his name) say that it takes him about 20 hours to prepare a sermon. Earlier tonight I presented a 40 minute Bible Study for our midweek service. I had a page of notes and passed out copies to the folks that were there. I pretty well followed the notes but there was interaction with people there also. I probably spent 10-15 hours on preparation.

I've also taught where preparation was more prayer than trying to put something down on paper to present.

A sermon/Bible Study might come in a few seconds but some times it takes hours to work it into a presentable format.

I remember one sermon I preached in a small church about an hour east of here. I had prayed and sought the Lord but had no thoughts organized, no notes and no sermon prepared. I went to the meeting just knowing that I was going to preach on the Holy Ghost. I don't remember the text I used (I just remember opening up the Bible and reading something) or what I said or how long I preached. Just all of a sudden I realized that I was finished with the message and I stopped. That night 2 or 3 received the Holy Ghost baptism and there were only about 25 people there. Every so often I think about that. I don't even know if that church is there any more.

[pentecostalguy]

Originally Posted by Neck

My unlce pastored one of the largest Southern Baptist convention churches.

He knew the names of all his 5000 plus members

That is simply amazing! I think that speaks volumes about your uncle. There aren't many Pastors out there who would even bother learning the names of their members if their church was that large.

[Norman]

I don't know what I would do if I were a pastor. I think I would want somebody else to handle all the money and not tell me who is or who is not paying tithes.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Neck

His notes were for his school lessons at JCM and Fort Worth School. Dude do you have something against me?

I sometimes regret growing up in a ministers home.

It is posters like you that always want to have another post their foundation for their posts.

I can tell you managing a network of customers successfully for 15 yearns now.

Is a great foundation from the business perspective to start a ministry.

Many of the pastors I have encountered have no business sense and no people skills.

My father was known for preaching without notes that is why I am so dead on that a minister must know his topic.

He once walked into Parkway Apostolic church grabbed a young man's bible and procecced to preach 2 hours on the Oneness of the Godhead.

i have him on tape stating who's bible it is...

That guy is now a friend of mine...

My dad spent his time researching the facts, reading writing and understanding the original Greek and Hebrew.

I know what I accomplish day after day on my job.

I support hospitals and large companies some with 30,000 phones and mulitple systems.

I am pagged in the middle of the night and have never turned a blind eye.

I have been awaken at 2:AM got out of bed drove 200 miles into Illinois for a critical PBX card and driven it back to the hospital so their phone service would be restored.

I have been through it all in business...

That has built for me a network of customers that have loyalty.

HMMMMM. Something that many church saints do not have why?

The networking and connection of the pastor...

The things that I listed on my list are done by me each and everyday and done successfully and translated into business practice....

Not sure why that gets you frustrated.

It doesn't get me frustrated at all. Believe it or not many of us that have pastored have also been very successful in the business world.

It just seems to me that you constantly are negative about the vast majority of pastoral ministry. After a while that comes through.

Like I said, some of your ideas have merit and some of them don't. I can almost assuredly guarantee you that the list you make today would be vastly different from the list you would make after 5 years of pastoring.

Further, like your Dad I developed an incredible amount of material while teaching at JCM. It is from those resources that I could also stand and teach/exhort on many subjects for a good amount of time. However, that still does not keep me from using my laptop and having a thorough outline when presenting a subject to a congregation.

I have preached with and without notes. I have felt the anointing both times. In all honesty, the caliber of the messenger and the message delivered should not be judged by whether they used notes or not. I have heard guys that used them that probably would have been better off without them and those that didn't use them that most certainly should have.