If you know what your talking about and have it set.
You donot needs notes.
Have you ever watched a TV and the actor keeps looking away at the que card? To me that actor is not serious and is unprepared.
To me a minister nailing it with flow and annointing without notes is Prepared.
Many of those yellow not pads are filled with chicken scratch from playing a preaching tape or watching Rod Parlsay.
Nonsense, Neck. Some of the best preachers I've ever heard use notes, and some of them even write their sermons out word for word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neck
If I were pastor and someone rambled they would be asked to sit down..
Really? You would shame someone in that way just for getting off point? Wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford
Yes, we all know you were raised in a preachers home. You only post it about 30 times a week.
But until you actually pastor, which you have not done, then you have no idea how unrealistic some of the things you stated really are.
BTW, was your Dad so unprepared that he EVER used notes to teach or preach? I seem to recall you posting about having many of his notes.
Yep! Lots of us were raised in preacher's homes. That doesn't qualify us to tell pastors how to be good pastors and preachers how to preach better sermons. Really, though, if it were offered with more of a spirit of humility, and more like "suggestions", this thread might be palatable. As it stands...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neck
Sounds like you ministers are Bill Murray not me.
i would love to see some in the board room negotiating a 55 million dollar.
10,000 site voice and data application converged network.
Having to rely on notes.
Do we use Powerpoint in the presentaion room.
Yes we do.
But we have the majic up on a visual screen.
We do not have our PC open and clicking our mouse and reading from a screen no one else can see.
Again I am not mocking anyone.
Did you ever see Nathaniel Urshaun pull out his yellow pad?
Oh, good grief. Giving powerpoint presentations is easy, #1, and #2, you have your notes right there on the screen. Duh! Also, as Keith mentioned, your product remains the same (or a group of products), so it's doubtful that you have to create a fresh PowerPoint for every meeting and remember the points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neck
There are those who know your name. And there are those who can make you feel comfortable. A minister should be one or the other.
Or maybe a minister can do both?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neck
Tell me how I can step into a board room and white board 10 converged technologies, hardware and software.
Talk fluently with engineers and VP's.
But not preach a 30 minute sermon that I would be just as prepared.
Again I am talking about myself.
Your statement does not leap to the page with any first hand experience on who I am...
I have sat in church for the past 40 years and seen reams of paper flipping and still seen malnourished churches.
Notes don't bring the meat.
The meat is in the preparation.
Notes don't prevent the meat being brought to the table. And I know LOTS of business people who can lead meetings all day long, but they would make TERRIBLE pastors. Pastors are servants. Most good businessmen are anything BUT. Such is the nature of the beast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neck
Very good someone has a goal and plan.
Now can some stop ripping me for my goals and plans?
Neck, the problem with your goals and plans is that they're for someone else--not YOU. If YOU were a pastor, you'd have a little more influence with your opinions. You're NOT a pastor, ergo, you know diddly, no matter how many pastors, preachers & teachers you have in your family. Why don't you go post a thread containing all your personal goals for being a better...uh...PowerPoint presenter.
For that matter, that alone is a crazy statement, because MANY of the members of this forum have numerous pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc., in their families, but that doesn't qualify them PERSONALLY to be any of the above.
You seem to think you are so qualified, based on what other people in your family are, or have done. That doesn't qualify you at ALL. And your thread comes across as narcissistic drivel--not helpful suggestions. That's why you're getting "ripped." Even by the nice guys like MOW and Keith. (I don't know if you noticed, but both of them politely said, "Sit down and shut up.")
1 name I would remember if I were Nate: Moses.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I guess I can sort of see what Neck is saying here.... but at the same time, the same tactics will not work for every service. I've been in this since I was a child. There are times when you will preach with a heavy heart and only have a single text to go on.... and God changes lives.... But there are also times when you will be teaching and notes would be very beneficial. Not just for you, but for the congregation as well. There is nothing wrong with saints following along with a handout to use a reference. I like tangible studies that I can take home and go over time and time again....
I don't care who you are, you won't remember every point you want to make all of the time. My husband, who has an incredible memory, uses a few notes to make sure he doesn't forget anything.
It's kind of sad that you assume that most people here would not make it in the business world. Do you know most everyone here? My husband, who is a minister, has worked in the business world since I've known him. He doesn't work for small businesses. He's been all over the U.S. and has worked for high level companies in integral parts of the company. He is a hard working man. But he doesn't put in 80 hours a week. He's not Superman... Well, actually he is, just not 24/7
My point is, don't assume anything at all... Don't assume that you know what you will do in a certain situation. Don't assume that people on this forum wouldn't make it in the business world. It's good to have goals and a general idea about how you would like things to go, but you just don't know what you really would do... Spending time with saints in the hospital will take some of your prep time. Calls in the early mornings will disturb your sleep and you might not be able to think clear the next day. Prayer time may go longer than what you planned for, thus taking time away from your prep time. Playing ball with the children and paying attention to the love of your life will take away from prep time. Sometimes pastors still have to work a job outside of the church.... There goes more time out of your prep time. However, if you are blessed with a congregation that will pay lots of tithes, and you don't have to work, you will have lots of saints to spend time with.
My hat is off to all you pastors out there. well, if I wore one it would be off. You don't need to be a Superman...... you just have to be a man of God!
__________________
I never met a chocolate I didn't like!
*sigh* I did nothing yesterday.... I wasn't finished so I did nothing again today!
Yep! Lots of us were raised in preacher's homes. That doesn't qualify us to tell pastors how to be good pastors and preachers how to preach better sermons. Really, though, if it were offered with more of a spirit of humility, and more like "suggestions", this thread might be palatable. As it stands...
Neck, the problem with your goals and plans is that they're for someone else--not YOU. If YOU were a pastor, you'd have a little more influence with your opinions. You're NOT a pastor, ergo, you know diddly, no matter how many pastors, preachers & teachers you have in your family. Why don't you go post a thread containing all your personal goals for being a better...uh...PowerPoint presenter.
For that matter, that alone is a crazy statement, because MANY of the members of this forum have numerous pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc., in their families, but that doesn't qualify them PERSONALLY to be any of the above.
You seem to think you are so qualified, based on what other people in your family are, or have done. That doesn't qualify you at ALL. And your thread comes across as narcissistic drivel--not helpful suggestions. That's why you're getting "ripped." Even by the nice guys like MOW and Keith. (I don't know if you noticed, but both of them politely said, "Sit down and shut up.")
1 name I would remember if I were Nate: Moses.
I stand in awe!
Blessed be the parents who brought such a gift into the world.
__________________
". . . as I suspect was true for those teaching Scriptures, I found that my students often felt they knew the Constitution without having really read it. They were accustomed to picking out phrases that they'd heard and using them to bolster their immediate arguments, or ignoring passages that seemed to contradict their views." Barack Obama in "The Audacity of Hope"
Connecting with each one in some way is one thing, allowing anybody who wants to take up your time free access is another. I've had people show up and say, "My wife's at the doctor and I had to kill some time so I thought I'd drop by and see you."
I would tell that person that I was delighted to see them and that I had "x" amount of "free" time to spend with them and then I would have to get back to doing what I was doing. An open door policy does not mean that everyone else controls your time.
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Nonsense, Neck. Some of the best preachers I've ever heard use notes, and some of them even write their sermons out word for word.
Really? You would shame someone in that way just for getting off point? Wow.
Yep! Lots of us were raised in preacher's homes. That doesn't qualify us to tell pastors how to be good pastors and preachers how to preach better sermons. Really, though, if it were offered with more of a spirit of humility, and more like "suggestions", this thread might be palatable. As it stands...
Oh, good grief. Giving powerpoint presentations is easy, #1, and #2, you have your notes right there on the screen. Duh! Also, as Keith mentioned, your product remains the same (or a group of products), so it's doubtful that you have to create a fresh PowerPoint for every meeting and remember the points.
Or maybe a minister can do both?
Notes don't prevent the meat being brought to the table. And I know LOTS of business people who can lead meetings all day long, but they would make TERRIBLE pastors. Pastors are servants. Most good businessmen are anything BUT. Such is the nature of the beast.
Neck, the problem with your goals and plans is that they're for someone else--not YOU. If YOU were a pastor, you'd have a little more influence with your opinions. You're NOT a pastor, ergo, you know diddly, no matter how many pastors, preachers & teachers you have in your family. Why don't you go post a thread containing all your personal goals for being a better...uh...PowerPoint presenter.
For that matter, that alone is a crazy statement, because MANY of the members of this forum have numerous pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc., in their families, but that doesn't qualify them PERSONALLY to be any of the above.
You seem to think you are so qualified, based on what other people in your family are, or have done. That doesn't qualify you at ALL. And your thread comes across as narcissistic drivel--not helpful suggestions. That's why you're getting "ripped." Even by the nice guys like MOW and Keith. (I don't know if you noticed, but both of them politely said, "Sit down and shut up.")
1 name I would remember if I were Nate: Moses.
Ouch! That is a lot of arrows to throw at someone.
When all I started was with the question someone asked me..
First off on sitting someone down.
Let me be more clear.
I would most likely not tell the person in the middle of their sermon to sit down.
I would however sit them down and have a long discussion.
Just so the next time they are more prepared.
My powerpoint presentations are not filled with notes.
The are filled with designs that have anywhere from 3 to 6 converged network platforms.
It is them my position to explain how these converged networks would communicate.
Many of my slides are not built with notes.
As for qualifications my practices have been in place in who I am for the past 15 years in buisness.
It is what separates me from the others who are trying to sell large voice and data applications.
The question is always asked of me by those who have not been awarded some of these large contracts.
Why or how did you win.
Everytime the customer or organization tells me about our team.
You all came with the best preparation and the clearist message.
I would take those same business practices with me into the ministry.
Again can I say it anymore clearly to you.
I am only responding to statements that were aimed at my list.
Why does a list someone else would perform offend others.
It was not a list to tell anyone what they must do.
Where are their work habits being laid out?
As for some of the items on the list like not using notes etc.
That is a personal and professional work habit.
They asked the late great Ted Williams the last .400 hitter for a player in Major league basball how he did it?
Practice made me do it...
Tiger Woods has his titles in hand and will one day be at the top for major wins.
Because he on average hits over hundreds Gulf balls a day...
You can only get great at your craft by preactice and preparation..
So sorry that my list is causing problems...
For someone telling me to "sit down".
For what sharing my goals and my work habits that would be a foundation for my work and spiritual life if I were a pastor.
Also, as Keith mentioned, your product remains the same (or a group of products), so it's doubtful that you have to create a fresh PowerPoint for every meeting and remember the points. 
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