But the same is true of many in Trinitarian Churches Pentecostal or otherwise.
Yes, I realize that. Oneness churches aren't the only ones who fight, split, disfellowship, have the police come to settle brawls, etc.
However, there are so many "trinity" churches that people have more of a choice. Usually there is only one (some times two) Oneness churches in an area and with the mind set that there can be no salvation outside of a Oneness church, some people feel like if they can't go to a Oneness church than they should not go to any church at all.
I believe in Oneness and Jesus name baptism....but I'm sick of putting a limit on Gods love and mercy. I see the love Jesus displayed at the cross, the mercy he had for those who were crucifying him. the Good news he offered the thief......I don't want to serve a gotcha god even though sometimes that's what I've felt in times past.
a generation from now a lot of folk posting in this thread would be asking the following question:
What is the doctrine of Oneness?
Hey Ferd,
I don't doubt that what you say is true as to the "Oneness" doctrine, however it is my opinion that the OP teaching has penetrated far beyond the OP walls. It may not be understood as "Oneness" but it certainly is a clearer understanding of who God is, that I sense in many places that most OP's consider Trinity. Is there really anything particularly sacred about the oneness label? jmho
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
There really is not just ONE explanation for the trinity, or ONE explanation for Oneness. You'll find varying explanations from both camps.
There are dogmatic trinitarians just as there are dogmatic oneness people. Both sides can be eager to say that the other side is going to hell.
The majority of trinitarians that I have read, or talked to, are not tri-theistic. They will tell you emphatically that there is one God. They do believe that He has expressed Himself in three persons (although one trinitarian scholar that I read stated that 'persons' was probably not the best word to use). Oneness people use the word 'manifestations'. But if you talk to them, they often explain the godhead using the exact terms and explanations that we use.
I could never, ever accept that there is more than One God. But I'm also cautious in stating that all trinitarians believe in three gods. Because most that I've talked to don't. I've scratched my head a few times when listening to their explanations, because - hmmm.... that sounds like exactly what we believe!
Not all of them, but some. Particularly the more educated ones. This has just been my personal experience.
But then there are others.... yep. Three Gods. They are the ones that are waaaay off.
I have never heard a trinitarian say that they believe in three Gods, they believe in one God manifested in three ways that tradition describes as persons. The three persons are not persons as we would normally understand persons. I know that oneness believe in one God in manifested in three manifestions. Do oneness believe in distintion between Father and Son? Yes, we do and then we explain it away. All Trinity that I know believe that Jesus is God manifested in flesh.
The truth is more the middle ground between the two postions, but our disagreements push both sides further from the truth.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
It is ashame that there are so many divisions in Christendom in general. Having been in OP church's for 16-years, I can say that I have seen much good, and also much bad. I suspect that is the case in many church's, regardless of demoninal affiliation.
I still maintain my honest opinion, and that is, if folks would seek a balance in life, doctrine, etc., etc. i feel that there would be a considerable amount less fighting and dividing over issues. I remember hearing a Ultra Con actually say that a balance is the same as compromise.....Are you kidding??? I remember the Bible talking about a just weight and an equal balance.
On the other hand, I have talked with many Ultra Libs and it seems that some of those folks want no accountability and in some cases responsibility. There has to be a centered approach in the Love of Christ. It is sad to me that it seems alot of Christians are either in one camp or another - there seems to be very little if any room for middle ground and wholistic view.
Seems whenever their are "sides" - one always tries to justify thir point of view, and really no one ever agrees or will ultimately accept the other. It is sad that there are so many that refuse church because they have been hurt and or abused by leadership that really ought to know better. It is also sad that some folks refuse to go to church because appeasing their conscience is a better option to them.
We all really need the love of Christ to permeate us, remove the scales of judgementalism from our eyes - so we can truly love one another and people in general. i really believe alot of the issues we debate are just distractions - the Enemy must be rubbing both hands together loving all the squabbles and fights and politics.
Bottom line is not "religion" it is RELATIONSHIP. To borrow a phrase from the corporate world......"It's not what you know, it's who you know" i want to know HIM!!
I have never heard a trinitarian say that they believe in three Gods, they believe in one God manifested in three ways that tradition describes as persons. The three persons are not persons as we would normally understand persons. I know that oneness believe in one God in manifested in three manifestions. Do oneness believe in distintion between Father and Son? Yes, we do and then we explain it away. All Trinity that I know believe that Jesus is God manifested in flesh.
The truth is more the middle ground between the two postions, but our disagreements push both sides further from the truth.
You will occasionally find one who expects to see three when they get to heaven. But for the most part, they expect to see one.
Suppose someone from a oneness background starts taking their family to a trini church,and that person's children or grandchildren does repent,wants to be baptized surely someone would not let their children or grandkids be baptized in the titles.
This I can't see.
I do know a situation where a person has a father who is a oneness preacher started attending a oneness church,and her kids who had baptized in the name of Jesus,were rebaptized in the titles of Father,Son,Holy Ghost isn't that alot to answer for ?
I can't see allowing that to happen.
Aren't some truths worth contending for ?
__________________
People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
This is not meant sound harsh or unkind,or mean spirited.
How can people who have a revelation of the oneness of God and Jesus Name baptism go to Trinity churches and sit under Trinitarian pastors ?
I understand that sometimes things might arise in a local oneness church where people might have to leave their assembly.
I understand there are valid reasons where someone might have to leave their church,but is going to a Trinity church the answer ?
If I didn't have anywhere to go,I could home church.
If faced between going to a Trinity church or home church home church I believe would be my option.
I don't hate Trinitarians but it would be hard to sit under that teaching myself.
I have enjoyed years of ministry in an AOG church. If you have been baptized in Jesus name, filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues [Born of water and spirit], then your salvation is secure and you can receive what you need from the word no matter who is preaching it.
Hey Ferd,
I don't doubt that what you say is true as to the "Oneness" doctrine, however it is my opinion that the OP teaching has penetrated far beyond the OP walls. It may not be understood as "Oneness" but it certainly is a clearer understanding of who God is, that I sense in many places that most OP's consider Trinity. Is there really anything particularly sacred about the oneness label? jmho
Crackjack for me doctrine matters. i know a lot of people here see it somewhat differntly. they view their understanding of God as maybe more "clear" than others but it really is a minor issue.
it isnt minor for a lot of us. Anyone who believes that Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the Gospel has to have a hard time even thinking of going to a trinitarian church.
Sacred? Well I am not sure how to respond to that question. Without question, I believe the revalation of who God is, is precious. I view my understanding of the doctrines of salvation as bedrock. As foundational. leaving those things for something else is to leave the foundation. It is to walk out the front door and then try to sneek back into the house via a window.
I vew Jesus' words (there is only one door and those who try to enter some other way are thieves) as sacred.
I cannot fathom the trade some have made. I have made friends here who believe differently than I do. I respect the decisions others have made, even though I cannot for the life of me, understand why they would.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Crackjack for me doctrine matters. i know a lot of people here see it somewhat differntly. they view their understanding of God as maybe more "clear" than others but it really is a minor issue.
it isnt minor for a lot of us. Anyone who believes that Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the Gospel has to have a hard time even thinking of going to a trinitarian church.
Sacred? Well I am not sure how to respond to that question. Without question, I believe the revalation of who God is, is precious. I view my understanding of the doctrines of salvation as bedrock. As foundational. leaving those things for something else is to leave the foundation. It is to walk out the front door and then try to sneek back into the house via a window.
I vew Jesus' words (there is only one door and those who try to enter some other way are thieves) as sacred.
I cannot fathom the trade some have made. I have made friends here who believe differently than I do. I respect the decisions others have made, even though I cannot for the life of me, understand why they would.
Hey Ferd long time no see. Where you been?
Do you consider Spirit filled Trinitarians as thieves? Are they trying to get in by anything other than the door?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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