No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth? - Page 12

Sister Alvear · #**111** 04-07-2009, 07:15 AM

We can say the one that died was God but not God died...I do not believe it was His flesh that made Him God but the creator that dwelt in the flesh...that was why He could cry out, "My God..."

however I cameto Brazil very young and never sat under a Bible teacher...so excuse me if I am wrong...

Shema...

Praxeas · #**112** 04-07-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelationist

No... I've never read any of his books... without a doubt though, the creator was incarnated son... I don't believe the flesh itself was God though. God can not die....

See this is where we get confusing. You say "flesh"...do you mean skin? And when you say "the flesh is not God" do you mean skin is not Spirit?

If God was incarate then God became a man, by definition. You are a man. You are a person. You are flesh (skin).

God (person) is both Spirit (Deity) and Flesh (Humanity). Meaning He HOW God exists Eternally in His Divine nature is Spirit. How God came to exist temporally in His Humanity is Flesh (not merely skin).

By flesh we mean human nature.

Praxeas · #**113** 04-07-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

We can say the one that died was God but not God died...I do not believe it was His flesh that made Him God but the creator that dwelt in the flesh...that was why He could cry out, "My God..."

however I cameto Brazil very young and never sat under a Bible teacher...so excuse me if I am wrong...

Shema...

Yes...HE died. He is the one that died. How He died is in His humanity.

Sister Alvear · #**114** 04-07-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes...HE died. He is the one that died. How He died is in His humanity.

yes, I agree...but the Eternal Spirit did not die...would that sound better?

ForeverBlessed · #**115** 04-07-2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes...HE died. He is the one that died. How He died is in His humanity.

well, you know I don't agree with you... God did not die. Jesus died and was resurrected and now reigning in power.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the father... but it was in his actions, words that was the image of God... his life totally fulfilled the word of God spoken...which did begin with a thought. He was the faithful witness to everything spoken of prophets of old. Mt 2:23 Mt 5:17

The Spirit of God was IN Christ... but was not him...only the invisible expressed in action.

Because the Son paid the price... everything that we do walking, living according to the Word brings glory to him... by everything we say and do. I'm so thankful for the sacrifice... for the Word bridged the gap between man and God..

My biggest issue with saying that Jesus was just God wrapped up in flesh is basically saying that he had an advantage... it takes away from the sacrifice of Jesus overcoming temptation of sin and submitting his will to the Father....the ultimate sacrifice of giving your life for another... true love, he paid it all... and because of that, he can help us in temptations... Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. If we think he had an advantage...then we will always make excuses for not walking towards perfection through him.

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever.

btw, God cannot be tempted and neither will he tempt anyone. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (yet Jesus was tempted) Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

You cannot take God and make him flesh in any way.... God (who is Spirit) was IN Christ Jesus....and now God can be in us as well... dwelling in us as we conform to his image as the body of Christ.

Revelationist · #**116** 04-07-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

We can say the one that died was God but not God died...I do not believe it was His flesh that made Him God but the creator that dwelt in the flesh...that was why He could cry out, "My God..."

however I cameto Brazil very young and never sat under a Bible teacher...so excuse me if I am wrong...

Shema...

I believe your very right Sister Alvear...

tbpew · #**117** 04-07-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

well, you know I don't agree with you... God did not die. Jesus died and was resurrected and now reigning in power.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the father... but it was in his actions, words that was the image of God... his life totally fulfilled the word of God spoken...which did begin with a thought. He was the faithful witness to everything spoken of prophets of old. Mt 2:23 Mt 5:17

The Spirit of God was IN Christ... but was not him...only the invisible expressed in action.

Because the Son paid the price... everything that we do walking, living according to the Word brings glory to him... by everything we say and do. I'm so thankful for the sacrifice... for the Word bridged the gap between man and God..

My biggest issue with saying that Jesus was just God wrapped up in flesh is basically saying that he had an advantage... it takes away from the sacrifice of Jesus overcoming temptation of sin and submitting his will to the Father....the ultimate sacrifice of giving your life for another... true love, he paid it all... and because of that, he can help us in temptations... Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. If we think he had an advantage...then we will always make excuses for not walking towards perfection through him.

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever.

btw, God cannot be tempted and neither will he tempt anyone. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (yet Jesus was tempted) Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

You cannot take God and make him flesh in any way.... God (who is Spirit) was IN Christ Jesus....and now God can be in us as well... dwelling in us as we conform to his image as the body of Christ.

May God bless you when you speak. I appreciate that your words bear witness of the confidence you have in God's provision of our reconciliation to him; enabled by his anointed one, Messiah, the Son of God.

shag · #**118** 04-07-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

well, you know I don't agree with you... God did not die. Jesus died and was resurrected and now reigning in power.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the father... but it was in his actions, words that was the image of God... his life totally fulfilled the word of God spoken...which did begin with a thought. He was the faithful witness to everything spoken of prophets of old. Mt 2:23 Mt 5:17

The Spirit of God was IN Christ... but was not him...only the invisible expressed in action.

Because the Son paid the price... everything that we do walking, living according to the Word brings glory to him... by everything we say and do. I'm so thankful for the sacrifice... for the Word bridged the gap between man and God..

My biggest issue with saying that Jesus was just God wrapped up in flesh is basically saying that he had an advantage... it takes away from the sacrifice of Jesus overcoming temptation of sin and submitting his will to the Father....the ultimate sacrifice of giving your life for another... true love, he paid it all... and because of that, he can help us in temptations... Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. If we think he had an advantage...then we will always make excuses for not walking towards perfection through him.

Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever.

btw, God cannot be tempted and neither will he tempt anyone. James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (yet Jesus was tempted) Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

You cannot take God and make him flesh in any way.... God (who is Spirit) was IN Christ Jesus....and now God can be in us as well... dwelling in us as we conform to his image as the body of Christ.

My 12 yr. old son asked me a few weeks ago, "If James 1 reads that God cannot be tempted, and yet Jesus was tempted by satan, and we believe Jesus is God, how can that be....? (worded something like that)

I answered him that God was NOT tempted by satan, but rather the Son of God was. Similiarly, God did not die for 3 days, but rather His only begotten Son did. I feel that Paul would've backed me on it had he been standing there during the brief explanation.

tbpew · #**119** 04-07-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shag

My 12 yr. old son asked me a few weeks ago, "If James 1 reads that God cannot be tempted, and yet Jesus was tempted by satan, and we believe Jesus is God, how can that be....? (worded something like that)

I answered him that God was NOT tempted by satan, but rather the Son of God was. Similiarly, God did not die for 3 days, but rather His only begotten Son did. And yep, I feel that Paul would've backed me on it had he been standing there during the brief explanation.

yeah for 12 year old sons

I am always amazed how so many folks read right past the provocation that Satan used to instigate his temptations of Jesus:
"IF THOU be the SON OF GOD"......

{which just so happens to be the position the demons acknowledged he had when they had an encounter with him in the country of the Gadarenes:
"What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. "

I wonder who it was that was adjuring him by God?

Falla39 · #**120** 04-08-2009, 09:07 AM

GOD did in and through the body of the Son that He could not do as The Spirit
(Power) alone.

Electricity, unharnessed, without a channel or means to flow through, out to
the various places to serve, is very dangerous and is not useful. It needs a
channel (means) in which to flow out.

No wonder those Israelites were scared nearly to death with the Spirit/God
sending thunderings, lightenings, wind, etc. up on that mountain. No wonder
Moses, who understood the Power of God, told them to not come past the
boundary of the mountain.

When God was channeled in and through the body of The Son, a body pre-
pared for the purpose to come and identify with mankind, and to die as a
sinless Lamb, things changed. The Spirit and the Body compliment each
other as one is of no benefit without the other.The Spirit cannot work
effectively alone. and a body without the Spirit is DEAD! The Spirit and
the Body share in the GLORY of GOD! Christ in you,the HOPE of glory!
Each realizes one cannot be of benefit, without the other. They give
glory to each other. The Father glorified the Son and the Son gave all
glory to the Father.

Can you see Christ comparing the church as a husband and wife! They
compliment each other, or should! IF Christ IS IN HIS BODY, the CHURCH,
sons and daughters SHOULD be being born. IF NOT, there is not the FLOW
there should be. Has the "POWER" line been severed!
The LOVE OF THE FATHER who SO LOVED the world that HE GAVE HIS SON
to save the world IN AND THROUGH the HIS WIFE, the Church. LACK of LOVE
for the FATHER (Husband) makes barren wives or churches. If the LOVE of
the FATHER (GOD) is not in both husbands and wives,the Love of the Father
is not in that union, whether it be the HOME or the CHURCH. SERIOUS busi-
ness!

The Son told His disciples that He did only the things the Father told him to
DO and SAY. Totally Spirit-led. If a man/woman thinks they can do with-
out the Spirit,they are just doing their OWN thing. But if man/woman sub-
mits and allows the Spirit to do the leading, they become the Lord Almighty's
sons and daughters.

Jesus performed miracles, that those among whom He walked, might believe
He was who He was. The Jews were critical of Him because they said that,
He,being a man, made Himself God. They did not understand He was God who
came as a man.

I can understand by seeing how valuable electricity (POWER) is, but it MUST
be channeled/contained in a means which can carry it to individual places for
various purposes. Look around you and see what you would have to do with-
out if you didn't have the POWER of electricity. Now just think what blessings
you would be without if you didn't have the POWER OF GOD in your life. If you
didn't have the POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST (SPIRIT) available.IT is my MOST
VALUABLE POSSESSION! THANK YOU, FATHER!

We are the channels or temple of the Holy Ghost that carries the POWER OF
GOD (SPIRIT) to benefit or serve others. Just as the power of electricity is
carried from a source (Power plant), so must the POWER of GOD come from
the SOURCE (God/Deity/Spirit/Father) to the bodies/temples of the LIVING
GOD!

Falla39