So, sin, in other words? Any time someone slips up, do they stop being Apostolic until they repent (or do whatever it takes to erase the sin from their record)?
We ca go the circles of what you think is of God, but you noted you do not believe the bible in totality, so what would be the use? Apostolics believe in the bible and not that it is merely man's thoughts. Would you agree, and would you also consider yourself apostolic?
The point I originally made, to which you are responding, was that true apostolics are not racist in any sense. You are turning this into a completely different issue.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
The contradiction example you give is not found in scripture. Speciifically list the biblical instances to show your idea of contradiction.
OH but I did. But I must have confused you with (4) versions of (1) story instead of just using (2) at a time. This happens EVERY TIME one of you guys see a contradiction. You act confused then claim you never saw it. After it is already posted. LOL Pretending to be confused with the black and white words in front of you certainly does not make me look silly. So, lets do contradictions in pairs:
And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away
My analogy: "when I arrived the car was already wrecked"
After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid"
My analogy: "I witnessed the car wreck"
Hopefully that simplifies it for you. Do you get it yet? (2) completely different, contradictory stories. Again. Please do not imply that I did not specifically post examples again. If you need them I will post the other two. Again. Bleh
Also, you have repeated again and again that bin Ladin is not en example of Islam, and I have done the same thing with those whom you claim segregate. I am not saying there are not people who call themselves apostolic who segregate. I am saying they are not truly apostolic just as you are saying bin Ladin is not truly Islamic. So if you are going to make that argument against bin Ladin, then stop accusing my faith as one that allows segregation.
That is not an accusation. When there are no longer all-white apostolic churches within a few miles of all-black apostolic churches within a few miles of all-hispanic apostolic churches and they never fellowship among themselves then this is effectively segregation. It happens. At least that is what I observed over the years. Perhaps a better approach, rather than act defensive to me or pretend it is not there is to say "why" and address it among yourselves. After all, you and not I played the race card I merely shared my observations per personal experience (personal experience that on the flip side is sadly lacking on your side as internet slurs on right-wing bigoted websites are not quite the same as checking things out for yourself).
Also, do you claim a Christian is a true Christian while having fruit of the Spirit as well as faith that Jesus is Almighty God? (You are hedging that issue like a hot potato.)
Hedging what? I do not decide who true christians are. It is not my place to pretend I have the right to decide who is a true or not a true christian. Apply that rule to yourselves and your assemblies will be a lot more peaceful LOL
Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 09-19-2009 at 11:28 PM.
The contradictions are there and there are many more. Review this list then tell me "these are not found in scripture" either. Old testament, new testament, the entire book is rife with discrepency. I added the chapters for the lazy and note they are even linked. The verses are too much work. LOL YOU cannot even say what happened at the conversion of Paul! (2) completely contradictory accounts. Does that make his teachings at least a bit questionable?
David was incited to count the fighting men of Isreal. In 2nd Samuel, God incited him. In I Chronicles, Satan incited him. When they were counted, 2nd Samual says 800,000 and I Chronicles says 1.1 MM. 2 Samuel 24/I Chronicles 21
God threatens David with 7 years of famine in 2nd Samuel, 3 years of famine in I Chronicles. Same chapters
Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses in I Kings 4. 4000 stalls in 2nd Chronicles 9.
During King Asa's reign Baasha King of Isreal died in the 26th year in I Kings 15/16. He was still alive in the 36th year in I chronicles 16.
Solomon appointed 3600 overseers to build the temple in 2nd chronicles 2. 3300 in I Kings 5.
Solomon built a facility containing 2000 baths in I kings 7. It had 3000 in 2nd chronicles 4.
Isrealites freed from Babylonian captivity (Ezra 2, Nehemiah 7):
Children of Pahrath-Moab:
2812 Ezra. 2818 Nehemiah
Children of Azgad:
1222 Ezra. 2333 Nehemiah
And so on. The total numbers agree in each book as 42,360, but if you add each individual column from each book Ezra adds to 29,818 and Nehemiah adds to 31,089
There were 200 singers in the assembly in Ezra and 245 in the assembly in Nehemiah.
King Abijah's mother's name was Michaiah, daughter of Uriel in 13th chapter of 2nd chronicles and Maachah daughter of Absalom in 11th chapter.
Absalom however had only one daughter mentioned whose name was Tamar in 2nd Samuel 14
Joshua and the Isrealites captured Jerusalem in Joshua 10 and did not capture it in Joshua 15.
Father of Joseph, husband of Mary was Jacob in Matthew 1 and Heli in Luke 3
Jesus descended from Solomon in Matthew 1 and from Nathan in Luke 3
The father of Shealtiel was Jechoniah in Matthew 1 and Neri in Luke 3
Abiud son of Zerubbabel was the ancestor of Jesus in Matthew 1 and Rhesa son of Zerubbabel in Luke 3. 7 sons are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel. Neither son mentioned in Matthew/Luke are mentioned as sons of Zerubbabel in the list in I Chronicles 3.
The angel stated that Jesus would inherit the throne of David in Luke 1. But Matthew 1 says he is a descendent of Jehoiakim and I Chronicles 3 says "and Jehoiaikim was cursed by god so that none of his descendents can sit upon David's throne" Oops.
Simon Peter found out that Jesus was Christ from a heavenly revelation in Matthew 16, but his brother Andrew told him in John 1
Jesus met Simon and Andrew by the Sea of Galilee in Matthew 4 and on the banks of the river Jordan in John 1. John says Jesus went to the sea of Galilee AFTER meeting Simon and Andrew.
Jairus' daughter was dead when he met Jesus in Matthew 9 but not dead / at the point of death in Mark 5
The disciples were allowed to keep a staff on their journeys in Mark 6. They were not allowed in Matthew 10 and Luke 9
Herod thought that Jesus was John the Baptist in Matthew 14 and Mark 6. He did not in Luke 9.
John the Baptist recognized Jesus in Matthew 3. He did not recognize him in John 1.
Jesus cleansed the temple the day he entered Jerusalem in Matthew 21. He spent the night in Bethany and cleansed it the next day in Mark 11.
Same chapters - Fig tree withers immediately Matthew 21, but overnight in Mark 11.
Judas kissed Jesus in Matthew 26. He did not in John 18 because he could not get close enough.
The curtain in the temple was rent after Jesus died in Matthew 27 and Mark 15. Before Jesus died in Luke 23 because he spoke after the curtain was torn.
Both thieves mocked Jesus in Mark 15. One mocked, one defended Jesus in Luke 23
Jesus ascended to paradise on the day of crucifixion in Luke 23 (or so he told the thief). He said to Mary he has not yet ascended (two get it, not 3 days later) in John 20
The apostle Paul and companions on the road to Damascus:
All heard the voice in Acts 9. Not all heard the voice in Acts 22
The companions fell to the ground in Acts 26. They did not in Acts 9
The voice spelled out Paul's duties in Acts 26. The voice told him to go to Damascus in Acts 9.
How many more? After Jesus' baptism Mark says he was driven into the wilderness, John says he selected disciples then went to a wedding feast. Two different versions of the traitor Judas' death. The time of the crucifixion has multiple versions. The story of the slave at Capernaum has (2) versions. The resurrection has (4) distinctly separate versions. Each gospel has a different set of people visiting, in some versions the stone is already rolled back, in one an angel descended and rolled it back, some versions have heavenly messengers, but the book of John has none. OH, the best one - in Exodus 7 Moses and Aaron converted all of the water into blood. Then the magicians did the same. Which is puzzling, because there was no water left?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Walks in Islam,
The contradiction example you give is not found in scripture. Speciifically list the biblical instances to show your idea of contradiction.
Also, you have repeated again and again that bin Ladin is not en example of Islam, and I have done the same thing with those whom you claim segregate. I am not saying there are not people who call themselves apostolic who segregate. I am saying they are not truly apostolic just as you are saying bin Ladin is not truly Islamic. So if you are going to make that argument against bin Ladin, then stop accusing my faith as one that allows segregation.
Also, do you claim a Christian is a true Christian while having fruit of the Spirit as well as faith that Jesus is Almighty God? (You are hedging that issue like a hot potato.)
Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 09-19-2009 at 11:31 PM.
And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves
And he taught, saying unto them Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Blume you personally don't....um......profit from your christian ministry do you? Profiting from something like that would definitely trigger that "true christian" question when held up to the litmus test of EITHER the bible or the Quran and certainly the Quran which holds the teachings (and example) of Jesus in high regard (note an entire chapter (Surah) was written about Jesus' mother)
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Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 09-19-2009 at 11:24 PM.
We ca go the circles of what you think is of God, but you noted you do not believe the bible in totality, so what would be the use? Apostolics believe in the bible and not that it is merely man's thoughts. Would you agree, and would you also consider yourself apostolic?
The point I originally made, to which you are responding, was that true apostolics are not racist in any sense. You are turning this into a completely different issue.
Just askin'.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Racism, for one, as per the chat. Beyond that, everything the bible says is wrong is something that disqualifies one from being a true apostolic. The list would be too great to post here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
So, sin, in other words? Any time someone slips up, do they stop being Apostolic until they repent (or do whatever it takes to erase the sin from their record)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
We ca go the circles of what you think is of God, but you noted you do not believe the bible in totality, so what would be the use?
Actually, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, here. I didn't ask what the list of sins is (if that's what you thought I was asking). Didn't agree or disagree with anything you said. Just asked if self-proclaimed Apostolics stop being Apostolics whenever they commit a sin. The example you gave was racism. That is sin, yes? You said someone who is racist is not Apostolic. Just trying to understand your position better.
Quote:
Apostolics believe in the bible and not that it is merely man's thoughts. Would you agree, and would you also consider yourself apostolic?
I agree that's what Apostolics believe, and no, I don't consider myself Apostolic. (Not sure why you asked! )
Quote:
The point I originally made, to which you are responding, was that true apostolics are not racist in any sense. You are turning this into a completely different issue.
Completely different from the date 09/09/09, yep, that's for sure!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Racism, for one, as per the chat. Beyond that, everything the bible says is wrong is something that disqualifies one from being a true apostolic. The list would be too great to post here.
Does that include eating pork Blume? The bible says that is wrong. (bringing down the wrath of every cajun family member on my head with that one but hey paul had a dream about it so maybe that one is OK) Also women who speak in or pray in church with their head uncovered. wrong. Also profiting from ministry. wrong. re-interpreting or adding to the written words of scripture. wrong. So the bible says.
Do you or your family do any of these things that the bible says is wrong Blume? You played that race card by the way.
Does that include eating pork Blume? The bible says that is wrong. (bringing down the wrath of every cajun family member on my head with that one but hey paul had a dream about it so maybe that one is OK) Also women who speak in or pray in church with their head uncovered. wrong. Also profiting from ministry. wrong. re-interpreting or adding to the written words of scripture. wrong. So the bible says.
Do you or your family do any of these things that the bible says is wrong Blume? You played that race card by the way.
The Koran played the race car.
WII, the BIBLE shows Israel not eating pork, and then progressing from shadow to reality in the New Testament where eating pork is not wrong. The New Testament teaches that the detailed legalities of the Old Covenant were symbolic of truths regarding Christ. Once the days of shadow are gone, and the Body is here that cast those shadows, the shadows are of no consequence now. We hold the reality of what the shadows spiritually foretold. So, yes I obey the Bible. The BIBLE is the Old covenant progressing into the New covenant, with explanations of the need for that change.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Completely different from the date 09/09/09, yep, that's for sure!
Nothing wrong with a different issue, but I was trying to say I am not interested in this departure. Just the one I engaged in with WII.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Just the one I engaged in with WII.
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