Yeah, it is easier to just write the hard cases off, than to actually love as Jesus loved. www.coventryreserve.org
So true, CJ. My heart has been vexed over my past cruelties towards mankind. Religious vigor has sent me over the edge more than once, but thank God I've lived long enough to reconsider my previous methods of "Labeling" people.
I have sinned, and I admit it to all. I've re-approached my parents and friends, asking them to forgive my self righteous and indignant attitude in the years gone by.
And yes, Love has done the job of bringing me to this valid and real conclusion.
I agree cj. My initial response to NFS on this thread was weak and insufficient for the significance and truth of his thoughts. "The older I get, the less I know" quote has become my mantra of late. I now view my spiritual journey as this sort of upward (I hope) continuum propelled by my own experiences, intellectual reasoning, and faith. My specific beliefs are tentative and in a state of flux I think.
Wow.
The facts used to scare me, but I've abandoned this fear. Experience is the FACT brought to light, and sometimes what we see can challenge the very fiber of what we are.
To be quite honest, without Experience the Facts will always be a mystery and will never be understood.
My hope is to get a few more years in, as the learning curve never stops. I know suffering is waiting, but every time these things pass, I love a little more than I used to.
Last edited by NotforSale; 03-12-2010 at 12:16 PM.
Reason: add text
Couldn't the entire Bible be summed up very concisely with this: "nobody's perfect"?
I remember an old movie I watched. The courtroom was full of people trying to claim that a man was a little bit crazy.
The man being accused started to testify. He noticed the judge and other people in the room doing things (doodling on paper, twitching, and other habits), and he pointed them out as something crazy people do.
I remember thinking, "We are ALL a little crazy". Some more than others, but yes, imperfection is in everyone of us.
Mans experience is flawed by unbelief. God had good things for his people of Israel. They refused his commandments and his ways. Therefore they perished. They saw evil and not good. Their experience was they failed God. He indeed promised he would fight against them if they did not obey. He did.
The same today. Much good is not drawn from the Spirit of Elohim because of sin and unbelief. That is the problem. The more man leans on his own understanding (experience) instead of Gods word the worse it will get.
Mans experience is flawed by unbelief. God had good things for his people of Israel. They refused his commandments and his ways. Therefore they perished. They saw evil and not good. Their experience was they failed God. He indeed promised he would fight against them if they did not obey. He did.
The same today. Much good is not drawn from the Spirit of Elohim because of sin and unbelief. That is the problem. The more man leans on his own understanding (experience) instead of Gods word the worse it will get.
No offense Mike, but your post is shallow with smoke and mirrors. You speak about Israel as though you've been there. You talk about their experience but not your own. There's a big difference in talking about the dead, and the experience of being at someone's side when they are taking their last breath. This is why the young boast many things, but later in life find they were in grave error through false judgment. It's one thing to talk about a War, it's another thing to fight in one.
I did this for years and found out that my berating of others led to a very imbalanced concept regarding a true love and compassion for people. Religion is man's opiate, and his addiction to this form of putting God in a Cave destroys the Facts and causes "A Group" to put everyone else down.
God's Word (our known Bible) is the problem, not the solution if left in the hands of men such as yourself. We are fighting over this Book that is full of controversy and confusion. If what you say is true, we wouldn't have 1000's of denominations all trying to figure out what God is trying to say and this Forum would be void of discussion.
I suppose your Faith is the right one, and everyone who doesn't agree with you is the wrong one.
With men like you, the World would still be flat and heads would roll. My post is bold, but your constant bantering of being a "Know it all" is putting others down and lifting you up as though you have some special take on life and Faith.
Why not give people a chance and consider a view that may challenge your dogma. Be open. What you say we've all heard it before. It's dead and dry, and leads us right back into a thinking that is full of bondage. Be honest, your experiences have changed you over the years, because if they didn’t you have learned nothing in life.
Forget your feelings and experience. The World is Toast, and everyone is going to BURN! This is what I feel you're trying to say.
I apologize if I seem I'm berating you, but the cold stance you take seems very distant from mercy and compassion.
This is great. It says so much more eloquence what I have thought for quite some time. That there are only two possibilities when it comes to knowing about God. Either we can discern what he is like philosophically from necessity or we can discern what God is like through experience and observation. Personally I like philosophy but it can never tell you about what really is, it can only tell you what can be if some premise is true and what cannot be some premise is not true. Experience and observation is the only hope we have of knowing what really is.
. . .
Ideally, there would be a feedback loop in place, where experience tests and either validates or invalidates one's philosophy, and one would then modify the philosophy to fit experience (reality) better.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Ideally, there would be a feedback loop in place, where experience tests and either validates or invalidates one's philosophy, and one would then modify the philosophy to fit experience (reality) better.
Amen. One strange turn of event's for me is the "Darkness hateth the Light" concept. This is usually referred to the World hating the Light we shed upon them for their evil deeds.
I'm not so sure the above is true, as Jesus vehemently put Light upon the Religious, and they hated him for it. Darkness was (is) Religion, not the World.
He was also hated for reaching out to those of sinful status.
I agree. Experience will only take us so far. We do need to rely on the accounts of History to confirm our ultimatums in life. I do appreciate historical accounts that share the rise and fall of humanity. This one thing is for certain, though; Man is basically the same as he has been since the beginning. There is nothing new under the sun. Killing is killing, no matter what time frame you live in. Adultery is adultery. Love is love. Hate is hate.
We complicate our lives with the technicalities of presumption, not experience. Experience reveals the flaws of what we read about in the past. Experience unlocks the door to those who've lied to us on pages of a book. Experience shows the truth about who we are, and what makes us tick.
In my Bible study last night, I gave this example; Marriage. Newlyweds make claims, have ideas, and devote to promises. But, only experience reveals the truth. Only experience crushes the fantasy.
When my wife engaged in vows 29 years ago, we had ideas, but no experience. My wife became so ill during her first pregnancy she almost had to be hospitalized. She weighed less after the baby was born than before she got pregnant. 3 months later, our son died of Crib Death. This was not in the plan. We never expected this. But, it became our experience, our reality. Watching my wife crumble under her emotion of losing that baby is beyond words. Going to the crib, reaching down to feel our son not breathing scarred her mind for years. We still cry when we talk about our little boy. Touching death revealed much about who we were. The joy of our vows was gone. Our house was still, the cry of our baby gone forever. Only the tears of my wife did I feel, and her moans of grief were daily.
We went on to have 3 more children, who are all adults today and have their own children. Failure, sickness, and much more have caused me to see life through a different lens. What I used to say, I don't say anymore, because of experience. When mothers cry from losing their son, I don’t need a text book. I hear their moan and feel their pain.
When the Israelites went into Amalek to slaughter children, I’m sorry, but I have a hard time with God condoning this. Unless we are willing to kill children ourselves, we have no business telling this story with authority. My own experience see’s the mothers of these homes, screaming for mercy as these men went from place to place with blood in their eyes. This was done in the name of the Lord, according to Scripture. My question is: Who validates this??? Those with no experience? Those who won’t kill the baby?
I also expressed to the church, in the beginning God created a man and a woman to build the Family. This was before Bibles, religion, war, hunger, and everything else we deal with on this Planet. Through experience, I see as Adam saw. We created children, going on to love the imperfect. I don't cast my children out because they fail, sin, or they go into faraway places of ignoring me. I love my children and would never cast them into flames of Hell. I cry when they hurt me, and lose sleep when they lose their way. But never would I do to them what we tell others God is going to do to them.
If God made the Family first, this tells me that the experience learned by being devoted to this initial plan was God’s intention to teach us about Him. This relational marvel called the Family, requiring mercy, love, patience, forgiveness, and utter devotion will build a healthy concept of our Creator. Unless we revolutionize our theory, we will continue to plunge our enemies over the cliff and into the abyss of Eternal Fire. This is Religions Revenge, not God’s love for imperfect people.
The Bible is just a Book, built by men who expressed what “God told them”, just like men today say, “God told me”. It’s a book of History, full of error. It’s a Book that confuses the World about God. Like I’ve stated numerous times, if the Bible was simple, and God expressed in the Bible was pure, we would have unity by it, not WAR.
Experience is the only thing that really gets me past this, because experience is REAL.
Where did you acquire this foolishness? It sounds like you will do whatever is right in your own eyes even to the extent of calling the God of the Bible a sinner and then turning around and teaching a Bible study! Amazing!
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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