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  #51  
Old 10-31-2010, 08:44 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
I don't see that it's necessary to make the distinction between Pentecostal and Charismatic. If they believe in charismata and call the name at baptism they are OP.

As to French. I don't think he used his personal definition per say. In fact, I was there when D B questioned French on this. As I recall French said his research did not verify beyond: 1. how the baptism was performed and 2. whether speaking in tongues was seen as evidence of receiving the Spirit.

He did question the soteriology nor "standards" or other doctrines.
Okay. There are Trinnies that do this ....

Steve, I don't know a more conflicted OP/C than you ... and I love you anyway.
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  #52  
Old 10-31-2010, 08:48 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

This discussion Hoovie I think also highlights the huge holes in the type of research French engaged in to make his "findings".
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  #53  
Old 10-31-2010, 09:05 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
Okay. There are Trinnies that do this ....

Steve, I don't know a more conflicted OP/C than you ... and I love you anyway.

Folks are a much easier target when confined to a neat little sectarian box - I understand that too DA.

There would be no need for me to be conflicted... I have not held license nor desire to. Nor do I feel pressured to become what others are, be that Anabaptist, Charismatic or OP.
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I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #54  
Old 10-31-2010, 09:09 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
This discussion Hoovie I think also highlights the huge holes in the type of research French engaged in to make his "findings".
This I would definitely agree on. Particularly if one wants to pour strict three-step soteriology into his numbers. This goes back to my original assertion that the majority of "OP" believers are accepting of the greater Christian community.
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"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #55  
Old 10-31-2010, 09:13 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
I don't see that it's necessary to make the distinction between Pentecostal and Charismatic. If they believe in charismata and call the name at baptism they are OP.

As to French. I don't think he used his personal definition per say. In fact, I was there when D B questioned French on this. As I recall French said his research did not verify beyond: 1. how the baptism was performed and 2. whether speaking in tongues was seen as evidence of receiving the Spirit.

He did NOT question the soteriology nor "standards" or other doctrines.
EDIT

I had wrongly stated He DID question...
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #56  
Old 10-31-2010, 09:22 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
Anabaptists roots? I have not repudiated my roots - ever. How is that?
For those who may not understand this as possible...

Here is a little article I wrote. It was published in the Pentecostal Herald in Sept. 2005

“Radical Reformers”

The Minister was responding to questions regarding
Matthew 28:19,

“From this it must not be understood that there are
three beings, or three persons, much less that there
are three Gods in Heaven.”

Certainly this is a man who is not embracing the
historical creeds as this statement alone would label
him as an “unorthodox” preacher, if not a heretic.
His audience includes new converts to the faith as
well as youth from within the movement. At risk of
alienating himself even further from the mainstream
Christianity of the day the Bishop continued,

“ But these names are differently expressed in
consideration of the work of redemption and the
salvation of the human race; as, the Father, the
origin; the Son, the means of redemption; and the Holy
Ghost, sanctification and confirmation in salvation"

“For, although it is said by some men, that there are
three independent Persons or Beings in the Godhead,
and therefore say further: “God the Father, God the
Son, and God the Holy Ghost,” yet we do not find such
expressions in Holy Scripture.”

Is this a modern day Pentecostal, giving a defense for
the Oneness of the Godhead?
Or perhaps an early Pentecostal discussing the “New
Issue”?

No. It was more than two centuries prior to the New
Issue debate. The man is Gerhard Roosen (1612-1711), a
prominent Mennonite bishop in Northern Germany. His
writings were recorded in Chistliches
Gemueths-Gespraech , the later, English version is in
a book titled Saving Faith which included other
Anabaptist/Mennonite Articles of Faith as well. To
this day the book is used in instruction for youth and
others seeking membership with the Old Order Mennonite
Church.

They were called the Radical Reformers, rejecting not
only the Papal authority of the Catholic Church but,
the infant Baptism of the Lutherans as well. Known
for their insistence on a “believers baptism” their
enemies labeled them as re-baptizers, or “Anabaptist”.
For this they suffered persecution at the hands of
Catholics and Reformers alike.

Such famous men as Luther and Zwingli called them
heretics. Unlike the Anabaptists’ nonresistance,
Luther and Zwingli defended their teaching with the
sword and the new Radical Reformers faced great
persecution. Thousands were burned and drowned by the
religious men of the day. Adhering to a quite
literal interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount the
Anabaptists were known to love and pray for those who
hated them. Many of their captors were converted by
their incredible acts of kindness in the face of cruelty
and torture.

While the early Anabaptists did not all reject the
doctrine of the Trinity entirely, they did reject the
creeds and insisted on using only the scripture as a
basis for doctrine. This led many to question the
veracity of such a dogma and statements like Roosens’
were not uncommon in early Anabaptist teaching.

A strict lifestyle of holiness was taught and expected
among Anabaptist groups and one who was born again was
expected to give himself to a life of non-conformity,
separation and humility.

It has been said that the Pentecostal holiness
churches of today have their roots in the Anabaptist
movement. Not only in some doctrine and lifestyle,
but the zeal found in the Apostolic Pentecostal
movement may certainly be a mirror reflection of those
Radical Reformers in 16th and 17th centuries.

A former Old Order Mennonite, Stephen, his wife Kristin
and three daughters attend -----------------, Mo.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #57  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:22 PM
sandie sandie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Yup... My first thoughts were "God cracked your pulpit in two? Really? That can't be good"
Loren Yadon wrote a paper and in part it addressed this occurance. He was of the belief that the pulpit splitting comes in judgement.
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  #58  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:25 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie View Post
Loren Yadon wrote a paper and in part it addressed this occurance. He was of the belief that the pulpit splitting comes in judgement.
I tend to think more in terms of thermodynamic impact on the fiberglass via building heating/cooing.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005

I am a firm believer in the Old Paths

Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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  #59  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:26 PM
berkeley berkeley is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie View Post
Loren Yadon wrote a paper and in part it addressed this occurance. He was of the belief that the pulpit splitting comes in judgement.
Read the story on CT's website. I posted the link a few posts ago.
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  #60  
Old 10-31-2010, 10:58 PM
sandie sandie is offline
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Re: Church of Champions and Christian Tabernacle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
Read the story on CT's website. I posted the link a few posts ago.
I can't find it. Is it the paper that Loren Yadon wrote?
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