OK. I will stop attempting to minimize this growing imminent threat. Sigh.
See? Again you have this cavalier attitude.....maybe you just don't realize how the way you are posting here seems like you are attempting sarcasm and by doing that it seems you are saying you DON'T see it as a growing imminent threat.
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Yeah, you guys caught me. I love those terrorists. I jumped for joy on 9/11/01.
Your defensive sarcasm is not helping your.
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In case you didn't catch it, that was sarcasm! The following is not:
THAT has been my point!
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Let's see. The topic. OK, I agree with Bro Strange that, if the Quran instructs its followers to kill non-Muslims, it's evil. I am not being trite, not sarcastic, and I'm not kidding. It is evil.
You happy?
That is NOT the topic. The topic is not "does the Quran instructing it's followers to kill non-muslims make it evil"
Wow.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Uh, if you're serious, Hitler was longer ago than a half generation. Are his doings irrelevant now?
Not that it matters (it was so long ago), but I don't see that in the Bible. I see God hardening his heart, from the beginning of Moses' dealings with him about setting God's people free. Exodus 4:21. And he did this several times, and the reason was to show everyone who was boss. For a chance to do wonderful miracles (plagues, including the first-born killings).
And what reason would they have had to believe him?
If you say so.
Timmy read Exodus 6. God didnt harden Pharoh's heart until Pharoh refused to listen.
my mind is boggled that you still think this is a good way to suggest that there is no differnece between Christians and Muslims of today. that is just wierd.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
See? Again you have this cavalier attitude.....maybe you just don't realize how the way you are posting here seems like you are attempting sarcasm and by doing that it seems you are saying you DON'T see it as a growing imminent threat.
Your defensive sarcasm is not helping your.
THAT has been my point!
That is NOT the topic. The topic is not "does the Quran instructing it's followers to kill non-muslims make it evil"
Wow.
Nobody complained when Bro Strange made that assertion about the Quran. Was that on topic? If so, then how is it off topic to challenge that assertion, based on the lack of using the same criteria for the Bible? I suspect it's simply a matter of not wanting to address an uncomfortable question. I see that a lot, here.
As for asking if the purpose was brainstorming, it was an honest question, in response to your taking me to task. (The smilie was unwise, in hindsight.) You informed me that the problem is not imaginary. (Never said it was, but it seems you were contrasting today's real problem with the Bible stories I brought up. Wow.) You said it's an urgent issue for today, and we should get back on topic. As if this thread had some mission. I mean, come on. It's a discussion!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Nobody complained when Bro Strange made that assertion about the Quran. Was that on topic? If so, then how is it off topic to challenge that assertion, based on the lack of using the same criteria for the Bible? I suspect it's simply a matter of not wanting to address an uncomfortable question. I see that a lot, here.
As for asking if the purpose was brainstorming, it was an honest question, in response to your taking me to task. (The smilie was unwise, in hindsight.) You informed me that the problem is not imaginary. (Never said it was, but it seems you were contrasting today's real problem with the Bible stories I brought up. Wow.) You said it's an urgent issue for today, and we should get back on topic. As if this thread had some mission. I mean, come on. It's a discussion!
Bolded part: poor choice of words, on my part. I was not challenging the assertion itself. As I've said, I agree with it. I was challenging the double standard. Thought I'd better clarify. (Guess I could have edited, but someone may have picked it up before, so thought I'd post instead.)
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Timmy read Exodus 6. God didnt harden Pharoh's heart until Pharoh refused to listen.
I reread it just now. I see where the Israelites would not listen to Moses (v 9), and Moses doubts that he will listen (12 and 30), but I don't see Pharaoh refusing to listen. Can you pinpoint it for me?
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my mind is boggled that you still think this is a good way to suggest that there is no differnece between Christians and Muslims of today. that is just wierd.
Never said that. Never said anything like it.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I don't know if this is the right place for this .I guess it relates in a way .Most muslims I have encountered have been polite and friendly genuinely nice. One of the families in our development we even became close to .[ the wife would mke dinner for us and bring it over] however they moved away.They knew we are christian and respected that [mostly they said we are different that "most christians" their words not mine] One guy I worked with knew my friend and I are christians and when He was going back to the Middle East he told us to just keep praying to YOUR GOD because what is going to happen is going to happen. [ this was a few years before 9/11]. I guess the real point is Where does the loyalties lie of the individual .Our job is to inpact them for the true God and show them there is a better way.
i totally disagree with this, this has been written by someone who don't even know what is Islam, Islam never says that don't make a friends of different religion but it teach us to respect other religion it never instructed to marry a 4 women and beet her instead man has to respect the women and also help her in all house hold works before posting a thread please read about Islam you will get a Quraan (English translation) in market
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Aaren
i totally disagree with this, this has been written by someone who don't even know what is Islam, Islam never says that don't make a friends of different religion but it teach us to respect other religion it never instructed to marry a 4 women and beet her instead man has to respect the women and also help her in all house hold works before posting a thread please read about Islam you will get a Quraan (English translation) in market
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Aaren
"...And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree over them..." Surah 2:228
Islam teaches that a wife is subject to punishment by her husband. As a punishment, beating a wife or abstaining from sexual relations with her is allowed.
"...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, Admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them,..." Surah 4:34
"For those who take an oath for abstention from their wives, a waiting for four months is ordained; if they return, God is oft-forgiving, most merciful." Surah 2:226
Islam allows polygamy: A man may marry up to four wives at one time.
"...Marry women of your choice, two,or three, or four..." Surah 4:3
Note: Extra privileges were given to Mohammed, "The Prophet of Islam." He was allowed unlimited wives. Mohammed had 13 wives in addition to several concubines which we know of for a fact.
Ayesha was only nine years old at the time he married her, Mohammed was fifty-three years old. Another wife, Zaynab Bint Jahsh, was his daughter-in-law. When Zaid, Mohammed's adopted son, saw that Mohammed desired his wife, he divorced her so that Mohammed could marry her
Islam compels its adherents to force others to accept Islam. Muslims must fight until all their opponents submit to Islam, unless, of course, those opponents prefer death. Christians and Jews may be spared if they pay "Jizya" (penalty tax) with willing submission, and humiliation.
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day... Nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (taxes) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Surah 9:29
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait (ambush) for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them." Surah 9:5 (see also Surah 2:193)
"Therefore; when ye meet the unbelievers (in a fight) smite at their necks; at length;
when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly in (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens." Surah 47:4
Islam teaches that Muslims are superior to others.
"Ye (Muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind..." Surah 3:110
Islam condemns non-Muslims, other than Christians and Jews, as infidels.
"The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith (infidels), and they scoff at
those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the day of resurrection..." Surah 2:212
Neither do Christians and Jews escape Islam's condemnation.
"The Jews call Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah.
That is a saying from their mouths; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers
(infidels) of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth!" Surah 9:30
Islam instructs Muslims to not befriend Jews or Christians.
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them. Allah guideth not a people unjust." Surah 5:51
Islam imposes a harsh code of punishment on those who violate its laws. Here are some examples:
Resisting Islam: punished by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet.
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of the hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land..." Surah 5:33
Adultery and Fornication: punished by public flogging for the unmarried person. For the married, the punishment is stoning.
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes; let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day; and let a party of the believers witness their punishment." Surah 24:2
Stealing: punished by amputation of the hands.
"As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands: A punishment, by way of example, from Allah for their crime: and Allah is exalted in power." Surah 5:38
Drinking: punished by 40 to 80 lashes according to the Hadith (Mohammed's sayings). - See Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 8:770
Islam forbids wine.
"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, stones and arrows, are an abomination, of Satan's handiwork: Eschew such that you may prosper." Surah 5:90
Ironically, the faithful are promised "rivers of wine" in Paradise.
"The garden which the righteous are promised...in it are rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink..." Surah 47:15
"...truly the righteous will be in bliss,,, their thirst will be slaked with pure wine sealed." Surah 83:22, 25
Islam teaches that "fate" decides everyone's eternal destination.
"Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck: on the day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll which he will see spread open." Surah 17:13
The Quran teaches that every Muslim will pass through hell.
"Not one of you but will pass over it (originally: through it [hell]). This is a decree which must be accomplished." Surah 19:71
The only assurance for a Muslim to go to heaven is through fighting for the cause of spreading Islam and being martyred in the process.
"And if ye are slain, or die in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass." Surah 3: 157
Heaven in Islam is the place where a Muslim man will be reclining, eating meat and delicious fruits, drinking exquisite wines, and engaging in sex with beautiful women, (and eternally-young beautiful boys or young men "Wildan or Ghilman," (according to some Muslim theologians). There is no mention of women's rewards.
"As to the righteous, they will be in gardens, and in happiness...(to them will be said "Eat and drink ye, with profit and health, because of your (good) deeds." They will recline (with ease) on thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them (in the original: marry them) to companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... And We shall bestow on them, of fruit and meat, anything they desire. They shall there exchange, one with another, a cup free of frivolity, free of all taint of ill. Round about them will serve to them youths (handsome) as pearls well-guarded." Surah 52:17, 19, 20, 22-24 (see also Surah 4:57; Surah 76:12-22; Surah 55:54-56; and Surah 47:15)
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Praxeas, Islam is a really big religion with differing schools of interpretation, just like Christianity. One cannot just take verses from the Quran and proof-text and give an accurate picture of the religion's true teachings. For example, what if someone took verses from the Old Testament where God commanded the Israelites not to spare a single soul, killing all enemies in the promised land, be they men, women, or children? One could take verses such as those and characterize our God as terribly brutal. However, theologically speaking, when the entire picture is examined we see that though God's means were very brutal, it wasn't meant to be something eternally espoused as a course of action and we see the battles in context. Much in Islam is the same way.
Some Muslims believe that the militant Jihad was essentially only for Muhammed's generation and that today that Jihad is a battle of ideals. Others are blood thirsty fundamentalists that take it literally to be applied throughout all generations and so we see the extremism we see today.
Even the King James Version commands that adulterers be stoned. Some Christians (Reconstructionists) want to see these laws imposed in modern times. Other more moderate Christians see them in their covenantal or dispensational context. Same with some schools in Islam.
Let's be even handed when dealing with Islam. Much of what you say might be true for one who is an Islamic fundamentalist who takes the Quran to an extreme, but it's not true of the over all religion itself.
As for Islam's view of Heaven.....I was a little bummed. They get to recline in paradise with beautiful virgins...and all I get is this silly white robe and eternal celebacy. lol
"Eat and drink ye, with profit and health, because of your (good) deeds." They will recline (with ease) on thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them (in the original: marry them) to companions with beautiful, big and lustrous eyes... And We shall bestow on them, of fruit and meat, anything they desire. They shall there exchange, one with another, a cup free of frivolity, free of all taint of ill. Round about them will serve to them youths (handsome) as pearls well-guarded." Surah 52:17, 19, 20, 22-24 (see also Surah 4:57; Surah 76:12-22; Surah 55:54-56; and Surah 47:15)
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