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But was there a pact with the devil? I would also note that the Haitian Revolution began in 1791, years before Napoleon took over France as Consul. Napoleon III didn’t come to power until 1848. So clearly Robertson is confused on the basic history. But I believe that Robertson is referring to the Bois Caďman Ceremony that in Haitian national mythology initiated the revolution. This was a Vodou ceremony and the following text is normally attributed to its leader, Boukman:
Quote:
The god who created the earth; who created the sun that gives us light. The god who holds up the ocean; who makes the thunder roar. Our God who has ears to hear. You who are hidden in the clouds; who watch us from where you are. You see all that the white has made us suffer. The white man’s god asks him to commit crimes. But the god within us wants to do good. Our god, who is so good, so just, He orders us to revenge our wrongs. It’s He who will direct our arms and bring us the victory. It’s He who will assist us. We all should throw away the image of the white men’s god who is so pitiless. Listen to the voice for liberty that speaks in all our hearts.
If you were a white, Catholic French person or Haitian plantation owner, I can see why you would characterize this as a prayer offered “to the devil.” The black Haitians are postulating the existence of two Gods, one for the whites and one for the blacks. The whites regard the God they pray to as the one true God. So if the blacks are praying to some second god, and doing it with a Vodou ceremony, it stands to reason that they’re engaged in a satanic ritual of some sort.
But there’s no reason for 21st century Americans to accept this interpretation of the story. From the Haitian perspective, I think you’d say they were just praying to God for his assistance and asserting the justice of their cause. This is what pretty much everyone does before heading into battle.
Satan doesn't even factor into this equation, Pat!
This is more about some slave soldiers with West African roots and entrenched in Voudou religion .... which espouses various West African pagan gods like Shango ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango), the deity of Thunder.... getting together to pray to a West African deity to pray.
While many of the bourgeois, mulatto and assimiliated Catholic Christians of the island primarily led the masses in this fight for Haitian independence.
... 'Till this day, Haiti, has kept its centuries old Catholic identity as its official religion ... with its archbishop notably passing in this latest tragedy.
This reeks of excuses of a few who can't understand how they got their tails whooped, straight up ignorance ... or a racist cop out that has survived even to this day and local mythology.
Yes, I believe race plays a role in how this has been framed historically ....
BTW, many references to many of these deities still find their way in our folkloric Caribbean music and literature.
Both Fuller Seminary and Princeton Theological Seminary considered a form a inerrancy. Most insist on inerrancy, and see any other consideration as a thread that will unravel the whole thing, as it's an open season to justify anything one wishes. The textual tradition of the New Testament is nothing short of amazing.
The so-called "errancies" that exist are usually careless errors that are easily recognized (in the manuscripts, not in most Bibles). Most will insist its the original manuscripts that are inerrant, not the copies (those are all we have): We affirm that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture (Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy). Because of this MANY, including conservative scholars, will say the Bible is infallible, but not inerrant.
I definitely agree and hold to the idea of Biblical Inerrancy. This doesn't mean that some things are difficult to understand, or even to phathom. As such, some will second-guess the literary genre, and are led to believe certain stories are more allegorical than they are literal. There are limitations with this, and certainly stories like Abraham offering Isaac has to be accepted as literal, since the story is retold and the character of Abraham is quoted by prophets and even The Christ.
Anyhow. I didn't mean to open up a can on the subject of biblical errancy.
That said, I respect the forum's guidlines. Everyone has to make their lines somewhere, so as to prevent a forum from being "hijacked" or at the least, innocently pulled away from it's original intent: apostolic fellowship.
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But was there a pact with the devil? I would also note that the Haitian Revolution began in 1791, years before Napoleon took over France as Consul. Napoleon III didn’t come to power until 1848. So clearly Robertson is confused on the basic history. But I believe that Robertson is referring to the Bois Caďman Ceremony that in Haitian national mythology initiated the revolution. This was a Vodou ceremony and the following text is normally attributed to its leader, Boukman:
If you were a white, Catholic French person or Haitian plantation owner, I can see why you would characterize this as a prayer offered “to the devil.” The black Haitians are postulating the existence of two Gods, one for the whites and one for the blacks. The whites regard the God they pray to as the one true God. So if the blacks are praying to some second god, and doing it with a Vodou ceremony, it stands to reason that they’re engaged in a satanic ritual of some sort.
But there’s no reason for 21st century Americans to accept this interpretation of the story. From the Haitian perspective, I think you’d say they were just praying to God for his assistance and asserting the justice of their cause. This is what pretty much everyone does before heading into battle.
Satan doesn't even factor into this equation, Pat!
This is more about some slave soldiers with West African roots and entrenched in Voudou religion .... which espouses various West African pagan gods like Shango ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shango), the deity of Thunder.... getting together to pray to a West African deity to pray.
While many of the bourgeois, mulatto and assimiliated Catholic Christians of the island primarily led the masses in this fight for Haitian independence.
... 'Till this day, Haiti, has kept it's centuries old Catholic identity as its official religion ... with its archbishop notably passing in this latest tragedy.
This reeks of excuses of a few who can't understand how they got their tails whooped, straight up ignorance ... or a racist cop out.
Yes, I believe race plays a role in how this has been framed historically ....
BTW, many references to many of these deities still find their way in our folkloric Caribbean music and literature.
Both Fuller Seminary and Princeton Theological Seminary considered a form a inerrancy. Most insist on inerrancy, and see any other consideration as a thread that will unravel the whole thing, as it's an open season to justify anything one wishes. The textual tradition of the New Testament is nothing short of amazing.
The so-called "errancies" that exist are usually careless errors that are easily recognized (in the manuscripts, not in most Bibles). Most will insist its the original manuscripts that are inerrant, not the copies (those are all we have): We affirm that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the autographic text of Scripture (Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy). Because of this MANY, including conservative scholars, will say the Bible is infallible, but not inerrant.
I definitely agree and hold to the idea of Biblical Inerrancy. This doesn't mean that some things are difficult to understand, or even to phathom. As such, some will second-guess the literary genre, and are led to believe certain stories are more allegorical than they are literal. There are limitations with this, and certainly stories like Abraham offering Isaac has to be accepted as literal, since the story is retold and the character of Abraham is quoted by prophets and even The Christ.
Anyhow. I didn't mean to open up a can on the subject of biblical errancy.
That said, I respect the forum's guidlines. Everyone has to make their lines somewhere, so as to prevent a forum from being "hijacked" or at the least, innocently pulled away from it's original intent: apostolic fellowship.
With these statements, I agree. Years ago I spent considerable time studying Plenary Verbal Inspiration and all the other theories regarding the Bible coming to us in it varied forms. I studied the various textual theories, which NT codex is the best etc. I didn't get it on a forum, neither could I. The subject is just too deep and complicated for the novice. However, there is plenty of material out there to adequately cover the topic if one wants to know truth.
There are, indeed, "errors" in the Bibles we currently have. However, those "errors" are simple word/numeric errors and not "errors" that would render the text unreliable. I believe, based upon current evidence (scientific, geological, biological, anthropological etc) that the Bible is 100% trustworthy. It has been PROVEN 98.33% pure. That doesn't mean the rest is error.
Questions here are always permitted. AND Admin reserves the right to edit, delete, infract etc. based upon a consensus of the Admin team. No ONE persons rules when it comes to Admin and we don't always agree either. Sometimes even we have good disagreements. But we always stay together due to our unity in diversity. At least we have so far. Really good team!
__________________
"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
"And Job said 'beam me up Scotty', and it was so. And Job was beamed up into the Enterprise to continue it's 5 year mission to seek out new life forms and go where NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE!" da daaaaa dadadadaaaaaaa
That would be errant
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
"And Job said 'beam me up Scotty', and it was so. And Job was beamed up into the Enterprise to continue it's 5 year mission to seek out new life forms and go where NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE!" da daaaaa dadadadaaaaaaa
That would be errant
Ah! Thanks!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Every place has its guidelines. Different places have different guidelines. If I'm in your house I'll either respectfully follow yours or I won't go there. Most of us don't think it unreasonable to follow the limited guidelines we have here. No matter where any of us draw the "line" there will be those who don't like it. We can accept that.
Having been in leadership for decades, there are 2 important things I have learned and try my best to practice:
1. I can be a follower even when I don't agree and I'm not in charge.
2. As a leader, no matter what I say or do, someone is not going to like it.
I can accept that and either end of the line I'm on, it makes life much more palatable and frees me to focus on making a difference instead of attempting to straighten the deck chairs on the Titanic.
I wasn't aware I was in anyone's "house." But like I said, "Whatever floats your boat."
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