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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #31  
Old 03-14-2010, 08:42 PM
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Re: Validate by Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps View Post
The truth will stand if it's truth. If it's not truth, it needs to be exposed as being false. So, I wouldn't be the least bit afraid of questions.
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  #32  
Old 03-14-2010, 08:43 PM
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Re: Validate by Experience

The spirit of Not For Sale said

Quote:
The Bible is just a Book, built by men who expressed what “God told them”, just like men today say, “God told me”. It’s a book of History, full of error. It’s a Book that confuses the World about God.
This is a direct assault against scripture. Nuff said as a word to the wise is sufficient.
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  #33  
Old 03-14-2010, 08:58 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Validate by Experience

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Where did you acquire this foolishness? It sounds like you will do whatever is right in your own eyes even to the extent of calling the God of the Bible a sinner and then turning around and teaching a Bible study! Amazing!
First, spending 30 years with my wife has required me to live a very selfless life. As with any relationship that will face the many trials of life, we would never survive on me "Doing what's right in my own eyes". In fact, that would destroy our love, not build it. This also applies to raising my children. For me to bring them to maturity, doing only what I see as being right, I would fail them and myself.

I am curious as to your age and own experience. I'll take a stab in the dark here, but I have a good hunch you are very limited in experience. Time will change that.

When my first son died, I was in total disarray. I was confused. My heart was broken. But as time passed, I began to see how this experience revealed the true nature of life, love, patience, and compassion to those who've lost children. Death always seems to strike the nail of reality like nothing else does. When you see your son lying in a casket, and the tears of your family are everywhere, somehow it seems that God connects to this grief. He made us this way. God is not cold, as Religion portrays Him to be.

In 1994 my wife began hemorrhaging severely. We rushed her to the hospital where she almost passed away. She had emergency surgery, and we had no medical insurance. It took her months to recover, and years for me to pay the hospital and doctor bills. This humbled me beyond words. I watched men and women who did not know me, love my wife with good medicine and care. This was another big turning point in my life. The people, who I called “Sinners”, were saving my wife’s life. They held her hand, and comforted me in my distress.

My second and only son alive, almost died in the Marine Corps, and he was discharged a DAV (Disabled American Veteran). I fell to pieces over this. After 3 weeks in the hospital, and 2 month's in MRP (Medical Rehabilitation Platoon), my tears and moans to God filled our home daily.

I could share a lot more, but I think you may understand a little. When you see your Church fall apart after your Pastor falls into adultery, losing his family and the Church, you see the brokenness of people and the failure of humans. You realize that our Church model is man made and that we are given many false ideas when we become Christians.

You can call me foolish, friend, but Time is on my side. Your day will come, where unexpected things will happen and you will change.

Whether you or I like it, the Bible is a Book that is full of controversy and things that don't add up. But that's OK. My Faith doesn't waver over this, because I know this one Fact; Man wrote it, not God. You can claim all day He did, but He didn't.

I've seen the dark side of Religion and the error of boasting that we have the Truth. People are pitiful, and that includes you and I. Sometimes my only strength has been from what I've gone through, and God will work through life's difficulties to bring about a genuine love and compassion in a World that is desperate for Hope.

God Bless.
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  #34  
Old 03-14-2010, 09:07 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Validate by Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Phelps View Post
The truth will stand if it's truth. If it's not truth, it needs to be exposed as being false. So, I wouldn't be the least bit afraid of questions.
An absolute, Amen!

When bound by Religion, the only thing that keeps us from the Truth is FEAR, and those that cling to a lie know this.
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  #35  
Old 03-14-2010, 10:45 PM
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noeticknight noeticknight is offline
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Re: Validate by Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
But not preserved?

Which manuscripts? The ones for the 66 books we accept today as the canon?

You are correct. The argument is not over whether our current translations (KJV, etc.) contain discrepancies, (they do) but whether the Originals did. I cannot demonstrate their present existence or verify their inerrancy. Quite frankly, providing any of that proof now is not a reality; hence, I give faith precedence. At this point, it is unnatural for me to deliberately undermine the authority of the words of Jesus, or His promises. I still wonder at His words, and cannot find fault with any of His teachings. And so, since these great truths are interconnected with the rest of the Text, I must assume a common authority exists.

However, I do not consider myself a pure inerrantist (if there is such a thing). Of course, the definition of Biblical Inerrancy must first be explained so that one can effectively determine whether a person is assuming "errors" or "falsities."
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  #36  
Old 03-15-2010, 11:55 AM
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noeticknight noeticknight is offline
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Re: Validate by Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
The spirit of Not For Sale said
"The Bible is just a Book, built by men who expressed what “God told them”, just like men today say, “God told me”. It’s a book of History, full of error. It’s a Book that confuses the World about God. Like I’ve stated numerous times, if the Bible was simple, and God expressed in the Bible was pure, we would have unity by it, not WAR."


This is a direct assault against scripture. Nuff said as a word to the wise is sufficient.

In the past, my initial opinion of NFS's posts regarding above topic were the same as yours, and I took issue with the conclusion. My problem was that I was too quick to assume his conclusion. I think its safe to say he isn't a Biblical inerrantist. That is his position, but I do not fault him for asking serious questions or pointing out debatable issues with the scriptures.

I assume your stance would bring us into an epistemological argument, in which case, the burden of proof would rest upon you to verify the claims and validity of certain documents/books. I'm not sure you can do that, but your welcome to contribute to the philosophical debate, and I would very much like to learn anything new you could present.
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  #37  
Old 03-16-2010, 10:05 PM
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Re: Validate by Experience

Just thinking here but Paul tells Timothy that all scripture,
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But to what scripture was he refering to. All the books that we have made canon? New testament had not been compiled as far as I can see at this time. As for what we put to being OT we can only speculate on what books Paul refered to. My understanding is that most of the OT books we hold to as cannon are because Jesus quoted from them. Of course not counting the books of the Law. Just my humble opinion but Just because Jesus quoted from on part of the writting of a prophet does not make every word said prophet penned Inspired word. as Peter wrote
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Note he did not say all scripture but all prophecy of scripture. Just a thought to get some thinking
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  #38  
Old 03-16-2010, 10:15 PM
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noeticknight noeticknight is offline
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Re: Validate by Experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
Just thinking here but Paul tells Timothy that all scripture,
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But to what scripture was he refering to. All the books that we have made canon? New testament had not been compiled as far as I can see at this time. As for what we put to being OT we can only speculate on what books Paul refered to. My understanding is that most of the OT books we hold to as cannon are because Jesus quoted from them. Of course not counting the books of the Law. Just my humble opinion but Just because Jesus quoted from on part of the writting of a prophet does not make every word said prophet penned Inspired word. as Peter wrote
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Note he did not say all scripture but all prophecy of scripture. Just a thought to get some thinking

Interesting thoughts!

Last edited by noeticknight; 03-16-2010 at 11:30 PM.
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