"50 things I would do - If I were a Pastor"

[berkeley]

What an awesome thread. Maybe I'll start a thread to elevate myself.

[Parkbench]

I've been under pastors who refered to their notes frequently, got their point across and feed the sheep wonderfully.

I've also observed some who read their entire sermon, word for word and stating God has given them the thought while in prayer or by speaking directly to them. The sermon was a UPC Sunday School Adult lesson or from other authors.

A UPC Word of Flame lesson will work if it's prayed over, altered to meet the needs of the saints and delivered with a mixture of pastor's own thoughts and worded his/her way. .

I'd not expect a child to sit and grow under a Sunday School teacher who reads not only the entire lesson but also reads the lesson activities. Once in awhile doesn't hurt but not Sunday after Sunday.

It's certainly understandable for a pastor to enter the pulpit unprepared. This is bound to happen from time to time. However, for it to be on a regular basis shows lack of commitment.

I have also seen someone stand up and take their time to read the Word of God only and not offer any comments and suddenly the air is charged and peoples lives are touched.

My hat is off to the many pastors and their wives who are doing their best. My feet balk though when I sense a pastor refuses to prepare a home cooked meal from time to time.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Neck

If you know what your talking about and have it set.

You donot needs notes.

Have you ever watched a TV and the actor keeps looking away at the que card? To me that actor is not serious and is unprepared.

To me a minister nailing it with flow and annointing without notes is Prepared.

Many of those yellow not pads are filled with chicken scratch from playing a preaching tape or watching Rod Parlsay.

Nonsense, Neck. Some of the best preachers I've ever heard use notes, and some of them even write their sermons out word for word.

Originally Posted by Neck

If I were pastor and someone rambled they would be asked to sit down..

Really? You would shame someone in that way just for getting off point? Wow.

Originally Posted by rrford

Yes, we all know you were raised in a preachers home. You only post it about 30 times a week.

But until you actually pastor, which you have not done, then you have no idea how unrealistic some of the things you stated really are.

BTW, was your Dad so unprepared that he EVER used notes to teach or preach? I seem to recall you posting about having many of his notes.

Yep! Lots of us were raised in preacher's homes. That doesn't qualify us to tell pastors how to be good pastors and preachers how to preach better sermons. Really, though, if it were offered with more of a spirit of humility, and more like "suggestions", this thread might be palatable. As it stands...

Originally Posted by Neck

Sounds like you ministers are Bill Murray not me.

i would love to see some in the board room negotiating a 55 million dollar.

10,000 site voice and data application converged network.

Having to rely on notes.

Do we use Powerpoint in the presentaion room.

Yes we do.

But we have the majic up on a visual screen.

We do not have our PC open and clicking our mouse and reading from a screen no one else can see.

Again I am not mocking anyone.

Did you ever see Nathaniel Urshaun pull out his yellow pad?

Oh, good grief. Giving powerpoint presentations is easy, #1, and #2, you have your notes right there on the screen. Duh! Also, as Keith mentioned, your product remains the same (or a group of products), so it's doubtful that you have to create a fresh PowerPoint for every meeting and remember the points.

Originally Posted by Neck

There are those who know your name. And there are those who can make you feel comfortable. A minister should be one or the other.

Or maybe a minister can do both?

Originally Posted by Neck

Tell me how I can step into a board room and white board 10 converged technologies, hardware and software.

Talk fluently with engineers and VP's.

But not preach a 30 minute sermon that I would be just as prepared.

Again I am talking about myself.

Your statement does not leap to the page with any first hand experience on who I am...

I have sat in church for the past 40 years and seen reams of paper flipping and still seen malnourished churches.

Notes don't bring the meat.

The meat is in the preparation.

Notes don't prevent the meat being brought to the table. And I know LOTS of business people who can lead meetings all day long, but they would make TERRIBLE pastors. Pastors are servants. Most good businessmen are anything BUT. Such is the nature of the beast.

Originally Posted by Neck

Very good someone has a goal and plan.

Now can some stop ripping me for my goals and plans?

Neck, the problem with your goals and plans is that they're for someone else--not YOU. If YOU were a pastor, you'd have a little more influence with your opinions. You're NOT a pastor, ergo, you know diddly, no matter how many pastors, preachers & teachers you have in your family. Why don't you go post a thread containing all your personal goals for being a better...uh...PowerPoint presenter.

For that matter, that alone is a crazy statement, because MANY of the members of this forum have numerous pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc., in their families, but that doesn't qualify them PERSONALLY to be any of the above.

You seem to think you are so qualified, based on what other people in your family are, or have done. That doesn't qualify you at ALL. And your thread comes across as narcissistic drivel--not helpful suggestions. That's why you're getting "ripped." Even by the nice guys like MOW and Keith. (I don't know if you noticed, but both of them politely said, "Sit down and shut up.")

1 name I would remember if I were Nate: Moses.

[Stephanas]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Yep! Lots of us were raised in preacher's homes. That doesn't qualify us to tell pastors how to be good pastors and preachers how to preach better sermons. Really, though, if it were offered with more of a spirit of humility, and more like "suggestions", this thread might be palatable. As it stands...

Neck, the problem with your goals and plans is that they're for someone else--not YOU. If YOU were a pastor, you'd have a little more influence with your opinions. You're NOT a pastor, ergo, you know diddly, no matter how many pastors, preachers & teachers you have in your family. Why don't you go post a thread containing all your personal goals for being a better...uh...PowerPoint presenter.

For that matter, that alone is a crazy statement, because MANY of the members of this forum have numerous pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc., in their families, but that doesn't qualify them PERSONALLY to be any of the above.

You seem to think you are so qualified, based on what other people in your family are, or have done. That doesn't qualify you at ALL. And your thread comes across as narcissistic drivel--not helpful suggestions. That's why you're getting "ripped." Even by the nice guys like MOW and Keith. (I don't know if you noticed, but both of them politely said, "Sit down and shut up.")

1 name I would remember if I were Nate: Moses.

I stand in awe!

Blessed be the parents who brought such a gift into the world.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Stephanas

I stand in awe!

Blessed be the parents who brought such a gift into the world.

Okay, that one made me laugh more than some of the others.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Stephanas

I stand in awe!

Blessed be the parents who brought such a gift into the world.

First off my father passed away when I was 14.

Trials in life have got me to where I am today.

Take a look at this website link and the road we have traveled with our son.

http://www.caringbridge.org/wi/johna...tadt/index.htm

Again the words spoken towards me on this thread without knowing my history has been shameful.

Growing up in a ministers home was only one part of who I am.

In fact seeing some of the things that I saw some of the ministers engaged in almost caused me to walk away completely.

Secondly my work habits and how I deal in business.

Does not need the title pastor to know how I deal and work with people.

The success is because my motives have been from the foundation of helping others.

I have been asked to pastor in my lifetime and have said no.

I would not venture into that office without knowing that I would be 100% committed to doing everything I do now and much more.

Some in this thread and their people skills should never venture into the world of business or sales.

Because the one time you do not give of your time.

You will find that your actions cost you the deal and the income.

Maybe some pastors should have their income tied to performance.

As do some major League Baseball players.

There is no other business or venture like the church.

Where someone can be at the head for 50 years and have the church be the same aize it was 50 years earlier..

I would say refute my list or items on the list.

Not by retribution but give me examples that are measureable to your actions and success.

[Stephanas]

Originally Posted by Stephanas

I stand in awe!

Blessed be the parents who brought such a gift into the world.

I should clarify that I was speaking of MissBrattified.

Her wit and wisdom are a gift to the family of God.

Blessed be the gene pool that brought forth her intelligence (and sarcasm).

[Neck]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Nonsense, Neck. Some of the best preachers I've ever heard use notes, and some of them even write their sermons out word for word.



Really? You would shame someone in that way just for getting off point? Wow.



Yep! Lots of us were raised in preacher's homes. That doesn't qualify us to tell pastors how to be good pastors and preachers how to preach better sermons. Really, though, if it were offered with more of a spirit of humility, and more like "suggestions", this thread might be palatable. As it stands...



Oh, good grief. Giving powerpoint presentations is easy, #1, and #2, you have your notes right there on the screen. Duh! Also, as Keith mentioned, your product remains the same (or a group of products), so it's doubtful that you have to create a fresh PowerPoint for every meeting and remember the points.



Or maybe a minister can do both?



Notes don't prevent the meat being brought to the table. And I know LOTS of business people who can lead meetings all day long, but they would make TERRIBLE pastors. Pastors are servants. Most good businessmen are anything BUT. Such is the nature of the beast.



Neck, the problem with your goals and plans is that they're for someone else--not YOU. If YOU were a pastor, you'd have a little more influence with your opinions. You're NOT a pastor, ergo, you know diddly, no matter how many pastors, preachers & teachers you have in your family. Why don't you go post a thread containing all your personal goals for being a better...uh...PowerPoint presenter.

For that matter, that alone is a crazy statement, because MANY of the members of this forum have numerous pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc., in their families, but that doesn't qualify them PERSONALLY to be any of the above.

You seem to think you are so qualified, based on what other people in your family are, or have done. That doesn't qualify you at ALL. And your thread comes across as narcissistic drivel--not helpful suggestions. That's why you're getting "ripped." Even by the nice guys like MOW and Keith. (I don't know if you noticed, but both of them politely said, "Sit down and shut up.")

1 name I would remember if I were Nate: Moses.

Ouch! That is a lot of arrows to throw at someone.

When all I started was with the question someone asked me..

First off on sitting someone down.

Let me be more clear.

I would most likely not tell the person in the middle of their sermon to sit down.

I would however sit them down and have a long discussion.

Just so the next time they are more prepared.

My powerpoint presentations are not filled with notes.

The are filled with designs that have anywhere from 3 to 6 converged network platforms.

It is them my position to explain how these converged networks would communicate.

Many of my slides are not built with notes.

As for qualifications my practices have been in place in who I am for the past 15 years in buisness.

It is what separates me from the others who are trying to sell large voice and data applications.

The question is always asked of me by those who have not been awarded some of these large contracts.

Why or how did you win.

Everytime the customer or organization tells me about our team.

You all came with the best preparation and the clearist message.

I would take those same business practices with me into the ministry.

Again can I say it anymore clearly to you.

I am only responding to statements that were aimed at my list.

Why does a list someone else would perform offend others.

It was not a list to tell anyone what they must do.

Where are their work habits being laid out?

As for some of the items on the list like not using notes etc.

That is a personal and professional work habit.

They asked the late great Ted Williams the last .400 hitter for a player in Major league basball how he did it?

Practice made me do it...

Tiger Woods has his titles in hand and will one day be at the top for major wins.

Because he on average hits over hundreds Gulf balls a day...

You can only get great at your craft by preactice and preparation..

So sorry that my list is causing problems...


For someone telling me to "sit down".

For what sharing my goals and my work habits that would be a foundation for my work and spiritual life if I were a pastor.

[StillStanding]

Neck, I understand the data communications business because my wife is area manager of a corporation that distributes infrastructure materials in this field. She can be seen at BICSI which gives RCDD credentials as you are aware.

Being prepared and professional is absolutely important, but....... all things being equal, they will buy from someone that they like. All things NOT being equal, they will still buy from someone that they like! Companies (and people) buy on relationship!

It's not whether you do or do not use notes....it's how effective your message is. If people start leaving in droves, then your effectiveness needs to go under the microscope. Ineffectiveness COULD be because of unpreparedness, but it could also be the delivery or how people look at you. Are you friendly? Do people think that you REALLY care about them?

It's all about relationship!

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

Neck, I understand the data communications business because my wife is area manager of a corporation that distributes infrastructure materials in this field. She can be seen at BICSI which gives RCDD credentials as you are aware.

Being prepared and professional is absolutely important, but....... all things being equal, they will buy from someone that they like. All things NOT being equal, they will still buy from someone that they like! Companies (and people) buy on relationship!

It's not whether you do or do not use notes....it's how effective your message is. If people start leaving in droves, then your effectiveness needs to go under the microscope. Ineffectiveness COULD be because of unpreparedness, but it could also be the delivery or how people look at you. Are you friendly? Do people think that you REALLY care about them?

It's all about relationship!

I have brought in 50 customers into a company that until 2008 had no customers in Milwaukee.

Customers do buy on relationship once they know you.

But if you are competing for new business put out to bid.

I have seen several large deals go sour from ATT towards our organiztion.

All of this knowing that the customer IT Manager or Telecome manager had a great realtionship with someone at ATT.

I do not target the teleocom manager or the It manager.

I sell at the C-Level.

They do not care about the presentation and the understanding you have of their business.

The deals that were won left the relationship partners stunned.

We won because we had a better design, plan and understanding.

The onging relationship is then built during the implementation phase.

As is the install we have going on with the largest school district in WI.

How did we win it?

It was not on price...

Now when you have relationship, customer care and give the customer ongoing knowledge of their systems.

They will never leave you.

As my customer have follow me from SBC-Verizon Businss and now to my current company...