100% tithe receiving pastors and the IRS - DANGEROUS

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

No attack taken. I have been around apostolic churches a LONG time and the vast majority of pastors I know "control" the entire tithing account. If they control it, the IRS considers it to be income. I haven't taken a poll on pastors, but my statement is based upon my experience. I would be willing to have others state the contrary, but I'm not sure they can.

I understand that, but if you keep records of your own donations to other ministers for the work of God, as it is suppose to be done rather than hoarding all of the tithes, are not that then deductible from your overall income?

For instance, if I were to receive $100K in tithing then kept only $50K for myself, giving away $50K to a homemission work and a few missionaries over the course of the taxable year, would I then not pay taxes only on the $50K that I kept, minus whatever other deductions that I might be entitled to such as travel (business) expenses to conferences, etc. In the end, I may only pay taxes on nothing more than $25K.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

. . . For instance, if I were to receive $100K in tithing then kept only $50K for myself, giving away $50K to a homemission work and a few missionaries over the course of the taxable year, would I then not pay taxes only on the $50K that I kept, minus whatever other deductions that I might be entitled to such as travel (business) expenses to conferences, etc. In the end, I may only pay taxes on nothing more than $25K.

No. Your initial taxable amount will still start at $100k. The $50k that has been given to charity is used to calculate what can be deducted from your taxable amount, but it is done so on a regressive scale of percentages. There may be a limit, and in the instance the limit is exceeded, you can sometimes carry deductions over to the next year.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by chseeads

Yes, but I don't take any tithes or salary.

No salary?
How do you support yourself?

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

I understand that, but if you keep records of your own donations to other ministers for the work of God, as it is suppose to be done rather than hoarding all of the tithes, are not that then deductible from your overall income?

For instance, if I were to receive $100K in tithing then kept only $50K for myself, giving away $50K to a homemission work and a few missionaries over the course of the taxable year, would I then not pay taxes only on the $50K that I kept, minus whatever other deductions that I might be entitled to such as travel (business) expenses to conferences, etc. In the end, I may only pay taxes on nothing more than $25K.

Then Bro. Strange you would be breaking the law as it currently stands on the books. If you receive 100K in tithes then you owe tax on the 100K salary that you have received. If you are married and your wife has no income you would owe $8,180 + 25% over the amount of $59,400 or basically $18,330 in taxes. You would would have to pay based on the gross tax rate scale. Your deductions would not be 1:1. So even based on approx. 75K of liberally taken deductions you still legally owe $11,362 in taxes.

[chseeads]

Originally Posted by Sam

No salary?
How do you support yourself?

I have a job. I work in accounting. (Yet I'm the one that knows nothing about how preachers pay taxes...LOL.....)

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

From what I have studied and know a little about tax law, pastors who believe that they should receive ALL the tithes from their churches are in a dangerous situation. If they indeed, receive ALL of the tithes, no matter how much or how little it was or what it was spent on, they are liable for the taxes due on the entire amount.

If those who believe they should receive all the tithes want to be consistent, honest and forthright, they should file their taxes with the entire amount as income. Failure to do so will be considered tax evasion and fraud.

So, feeling lucky today...punk?

How much of a chance are you willing to take?

BTW, to keep some of you out of jail, this poll is private!

Ive been trying to tell them this Bro. John...they wont listen....
Its not on their standards list.

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Firstly I am NOT a cheat NOR a liar and resent that neither am I a hireling that is afraid of my shadow. But to set the record straight the tithe belongs to me that does NOT mean I take them all. I set my salary and pay taxes on that amount and I am set up according to IRS laws. NO church board designates my salary I do that however the trustees do know what I am paid and my living expenses. IF the board sets my salary then I am their employee I am NOT their employee GOD alone is my employer. The Holy Ghost makes overseers in the church NOT some church board. Muzzle NOT the ox Paul said a preacher who salary is set by a church board is muzzled. The ox is free to eat unmuzzled and if he eats too much he pays for it. That is THE BOOK. The levites lived of things of the Temple(the tithing chamber) and levites oversaw it NOT laymen. Most Pentecostal churches have an Eliashibib who is afraid of his shadow for a pastor and Tobiah is dolling out the salary. But A real MAN of God THREW him out and put the levites back in control. Neh. 13 read it and weep!

Bro Epely...all fussing and irritation aside....
This is not smart on your part and the bolded part REALLY troubles me!

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

NO sir you again are incorrect controlling the tithe does NOT make it taxable ONLY what you recieve personally. A tax professional set our up along with about 300 churches. He goes to the IRS clinics every year for the new changes. Your info is flawed.

No ELDER (just for you ),
YOU are wrong....
Go to IRS.gov....
churches...
salaries...

"Muzzle not the ox"

Why did Paul use the ox, and not another animal?

That is something to ponder.

[NLYP]

From IRS Website


How Churches Violate Section 4958

Under section 4958 all churches and ministries are required to put in writing as an agreement between the church/ministry, all monetary transactions. These include salaries and reimbursements between the pastor and all board members. Failure to do so results in what the IRS has titled an "Excess Benefit Transaction." This type of violation can result in an excise tax of 25% being charged directly against the pastor and/or board of directors. Additionally, if the pastor or board of directors do not correct the violation by the end of the tax year, the IRS will impose a tax equal to 200% of the transaction.

The IRS can also impose a tax of up to $10,000.00 against the officers of the church if they have approved any transaction without putting it into writing.

Many churches pay their pastors without creating a "Salary Compensation Package." This package is a contract between the church and the pastor detailing all of the provisions of the salary being paid to the pastor. This contract must include the beginning date, the amount being paid and all details involving the transaction. If it is a salary package for the pastor or an employee of the church, it must detail all of the benefits and reimbursable items as well. At the conference we will discuss all of the details of how to put together a salary compensation package.

Other ways churches violate section 4958

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Churches pay honorariums without giving a written statement indicating the reason for the payment.
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Churches reimburse individuals without an actual written accountable reimbursement plan with a reimbursement form.
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Churches pay the personal bills of the pastor such as light, water, cable, mortgages and rent.
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Churches that meet in the pastor's home pay reimbursements for utilities, rent and repairs. This is a major violation and can also result in loss of exempt status.
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Churches pay cash out of the offering to a minister.