It's never acceptable to use profanity, I don't care who you are. I guess you run in a different professional crowd than I do. You have every right to think my measuring stick is too harsh...that's your opinion. I've worked in the corporate world and the high class people I've worked with didn't use that kind of language. Sorry Vijay, you don't have my respect either. There is no reason to use it. It does NOT bring respect. I'm not a prude and working in law enforcement as I do, I regularly hear profanity. It still is never acceptable. It is a bad/nasty habit that serves absolutely no good purpose whatsoever.
Tiger is NOT a class act. He used to be or at least he used to play one. One does not even have to be a Christian to be a class act and he is neither.
BTW, I really don't want to hear Vijay's rant and won't be listening to it. I don't use that kind of language whether I work with law enforcement officers or the inmates. It serves no good purpose and I don't respect people who choose to do so. It really is classless even if MANY people do it.
Well fortunately, you're not the final judge on what athletes and professionals can say and what they can't. I would venture to guess there are things you say that are offensive to some. I gave the example of "Sheesh" that is used here on the forum frequently. It's every bit as bad as saying "Jesus" in anger......to me. But that's MY opinion and you may or may not agree. The important thing is, use language that you feel is good and leave the rest of us alone. We'll each have to work out what is acceptable to each of us. In environments where rules are established, then we'll have to abide by those guidelines, and on the PGA Tour, Tiger isn't violating anyone's rules.
Joe Biden, Barak Obama, John McCain, George W. Bush, and many others in great positions, have been recorded saying just as bad or worse than Tiger. maybe your corporate friends have perfect language, but our past few presidents don't.
Bottom line is, though, you really don't know who IS and who ISN'T a class act. Because we don't really know....I don't really know all about you and vice versa....I choose to respect people for who they are and attempt to see every single person through the eyes of Jesus Christ, and when I look at them through His eyes, things look much different.
Just enjoy the golf and respect the talent. It's much easier.
Well fortunately, you're not the final judge on what athletes and professionals can say and what they can't. I would venture to guess there are things you say that are offensive to some. I gave the example of "Sheesh" that is used here on the forum frequently. It's every bit as bad as saying "Jesus" in anger......to me. But that's MY opinion and you may or may not agree. The important thing is, use language that you feel is good and leave the rest of us alone. We'll each have to work out what is acceptable to each of us. In environments where rules are established, then we'll have to abide by those guidelines, and on the PGA Tour, Tiger isn't violating anyone's rules.
Joe Biden, Barak Obama, John McCain, George W. Bush, and many others in great positions, have been recorded saying just as bad or worse than Tiger. maybe your corporate friends have perfect language, but our past few presidents don't.
Bottom line is, though, you really don't know who IS and who ISN'T a class act. Because we don't really know....I don't really know all about you and vice versa....I choose to respect people for who they are and attempt to see every single person through the eyes of Jesus Christ, and when I look at them through His eyes, things look much different.
Just enjoy the golf and respect the talent. It's much easier.
I don't enjoy the golf (I'm a triathlete) and I don't respect any talent who chooses occupation/hobby over family or is crass. I also do NOT appreciate when "politicians" use crass language either and think they are classless when they do so. That's just who I am. I don't think I'm alone in this though.
This is a forum where we share our opinions and how we feel about things. I'm sharing my opinions and how I feel. Tiger is classless and that is how I feel about it. You can disagree with me and I respect that.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
I don't enjoy the golf (I'm a triathlete) and I don't respect any talent who chooses occupation/hobby over family or is crass. I also do NOT appreciate when "politicians" use crass language either and think they are classless when they do so. That's just who I am. I don't think I'm alone in this though.
This is a forum where we share our opinions and how we feel about things. I'm sharing my opinions and how I feel. Tiger is classless and that is how I feel about it. You can disagree with me and I respect that.
Bolded: ...which is exactly what I'm doing. And you're correct...you're not the only one who sees it the way you do. But I'm also not the only one who sees it the way I do, although I'm probably more unusual, in that I'm not a participator in the conduct I'm defending.
I haven't done hardly any of the things I'm defending, yet I'm fully aware of what I HAVE done, and that causes my mouth to shut when it's time to condemn anyone's behavior. When I'm perfect, I'll start demanding perfection from others. Until then, I'll just love and respect others and always keep in mind that I need to see them through the eyes of Christ. And every time I look through his eyes, people look much differently.
When Jesus saw the people wondering as sheep having no shepherd, he was moved with compassion. The element of compassion makes it very difficult to condemn.
My heart has been and is still broken for what Tiger allowed himself to get involved in. My family and I pray for him everyday and believe that ultimately, he and his family will find the peace that he needs.
I would delight in nothing better than to be able to give a standing "O" to someone who is a "world class" husband, father & professional. In fact, I'm certain that there are many in that category. We just don't hear about too many of them. Tiger Woods is NOT one of them. It looked like he COULD be, but sadly, not even close. He can change that and I hope he does.
I applaud the man or woman who is not only successful in their career, but in their personal life first and foremost. It is not unrealistic expectation. It used to be more of the norm for our society. Certainly not perfection but there was more of an "honorable" attitude in our population. People had honor and with honor there are certain things that you just don't partake in.
I would be much more likely to cut Tiger some slack if he simply had a lapse in moral judgement. If he had a one night stand (as bad as that is) or didn't ward off the advances of someone who kept coming on to him and finally gave in once or twice. But he repeatedly made a conscious decision over and over again to tread on his marital vows.
He made the decision to do what it took to become the best golfer in the world. He said "No" to the many things which would have taken him off course of that goal and yet the one thing which was more valuable than anything else in world, he didn't value as he should have.
Yes, I still want heroes! Yes, there are still heroes out there! I want to be one of those heroes to my family, my community and the church I am so privileged to pastor. Perfection? Certainly not! Arrogance? I hope never. Transparency? I hope always. The folks in the church I pastor know I am not perfect and they also know how I strive to overcome. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me! Without that, I ain't got a snowball's chance. Can I fall? Absolutely! Can I fall like Tiger? Certainly! But without a moral compass and without identifying unacceptable things, we are sure to commit them.
I know the struggles of professional athletes. I have talked to them and listened how that the vets are quick to teach the rookies how to party and cheat on their spouses. But there are still those who don't succumb. To them, I rise from my seat, tears in my eyes, for them AND for those who do succumb. But my applause is for those heroes who look the storm in the face, are not perfect, yet who have honor in the fiber of their being. Bravo! Bravo!
I would love to be able to do that for Tiger someday! I pray that it will come to pass. But his performance doesn't warrant that yet. He never got paid for the athlete he had the POTENTIAL to be. He got rewarded for what he accomplished. So, when he does something worth applauding, I'll rise to my feet. However, right now, he's not even close. Hopefully, on the right track. But he needs to be as successful with his family as he is on the course.
High standards? YES! And we should all strive for those standards knowing that we are frail and sinful creatures. But, I refuse to say that because we are all weak and sinful that we shouldn't strive in righteousness. It is a worthy goal and one I can't even come close to without His help. I have a hard enough time WITH His help! But I am not what I used to be. God being my helper, I won't return to that either!
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
Tiger with a sucky, frustrated attitude, with a wife he dissed not at his side nor anywhere near his heart.
Phil with a humble, graceful, content attitude, with a wife he loves who is battling breast cancer, wishing she was by his side, and definitely in his heart.
graced
Anyone else care to chime in on the Hollywoodesque contrast at the Masters?
(Note: I'm a Tiger fan, admire his talent - but he was certainly outdone in Augustus on multiple levels)
I would delight in nothing better than to be able to give a standing "O" to someone who is a "world class" husband, father & professional. In fact, I'm certain that there are many in that category. We just don't hear about too many of them. Tiger Woods is NOT one of them. It looked like he COULD be, but sadly, not even close. He can change that and I hope he does.
••Looking to professional athletes as some sort of lifestyle example that we should follow is a complete pipe dream. Charles Barkley was completely correct when he declared that he was not a role model. Many of these athletes, including Tiger, have great qualities that can and should inspire us. His fierce dedication to his craft should be an example for us all to follow. Did he fall prey to one of the oldest and most common temptations that famous and wealthy pro athletes and celebrities fall victim to? Absolutely. And I believe the example that he set in the aftermath was admirable. He shut down his life and his profession, and seriously addressed the issues. If & when you or I fall victim to temptation, I should think we would want to learn from Tiger in how he's handled it.
Was he as good as we thought? Nope. And I doubt that neither you nor I are as good as people around us think. Neither of us would want our worst moments posted on YouTube.
I applaud the man or woman who is not only successful in their career, but in their personal life first and foremost. It is not unrealistic expectation. It used to be more of the norm for our society.
••I loudly disagree with the bolded. The dreamworld imagery that we have of yesteryear never existed. The people who went before us were just as susceptible to depravity as our current society...they were humans too. The difference is, they didn't have scads of media following them everywhere. Babe Ruth was a drunk and played nearly every game of his career plastered. Ty Cobb believed that black people were animals. J. Edgar Hoover, we know now, was a closet homosexual...as was King James! JFK had more women than Tiger. And those grand old folks of yesteryear? They wouldn't let black people vote, wouldn't let women vote, and beat their women just as much as now.....we just didn't know about it. The "Leave It To Beaver" world was a fantasy. Very simply, the good ole days never existed.
Certainly not perfection but there was more of an "honorable" attitude in our population. People had honor and with honor there are certain things that you just don't partake in.
••Absolutely not. There was just more cover up. Now? We live in the world of the National Enquirer and YouTube. Nothing would have ever been known about Tiger if not for the National Enquirer, and you would have gone on thinking he was wonderful, just like you think yesteryear was wonderful. I wonder how many of our "heroes" lived just like Tiger, in secret?
I would be much more likely to cut Tiger some slack if he simply had a lapse in moral judgement. If he had a one night stand (as bad as that is) or didn't ward off the advances of someone who kept coming on to him and finally gave in once or twice. But he repeatedly made a conscious decision over and over again to tread on his marital vows.
••So you are quantifying sin? One occurrence is the same as 50. It's all bad. And regardless of what the sin is or how many times it's occurred, it's bad. Your one minor sin is as bad as Tiger's many bad ones.
He made the decision to do what it took to become the best golfer in the world. He said "No" to the many things which would have taken him off course of that goal and yet the one thing which was more valuable than anything else in world, he didn't value as he should have.
••Boy oh boy, he turned out to be human.
Yes, I still want heroes!
••You have one. Jesus Christ. And He'll never disappoint. Everyone else will.
Yes, there are still heroes out there!
••As long as The Enquirer or YouTube doesn't get a hold of them.
I want to be one of those heroes to my family, my community and the church I am so privileged to pastor. Perfection? Certainly not!
••So why are you being so narrow-minded about Tiger's imperfections?
Arrogance? I hope never.
••I think we've covered that one and you weren't too fond of my observations!
Transparency? I hope always. The folks in the church I pastor know I am not perfect and they also know how I strive to overcome. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me!
••That verse, of course, is only talking about the way we handle success or failure.
Without that, I ain't got a snowball's chance. Can I fall? Absolutely! Can I fall like Tiger? Certainly! But without a moral compass and without identifying unacceptable things, we are sure to commit them.
••The ultimate moral compass I wish to possess is to always, ALWAYS, show grace, mercy, and love and to show them unconditionally.
I know the struggles of professional athletes. I have talked to them and listened how that the vets are quick to teach the rookies how to party and cheat on their spouses. But there are still those who don't succumb. To them, I rise from my seat, tears in my eyes, for them AND for those who do succumb.
••I also rise from my seat, with tears in my eyes, and take my hat off to those who have fallen, and had the strength and integrity to face their failures and try again. I love broken people.
But my applause is for those heroes who look the storm in the face, are not perfect, yet who have honor in the fiber of their being. Bravo! Bravo!
I would love to be able to do that for Tiger someday!
••You can now if you want to. I sure am!
I pray that it will come to pass.
••It already has. He faced his failures and is doing everything possible to make things right.
But his performance doesn't warrant that yet. He never got paid for the athlete he had the POTENTIAL to be. He got rewarded for what he accomplished. So, when he does something worth applauding, I'll rise to my feet. However, right now, he's not even close. Hopefully, on the right track. But he needs to be as successful with his family as he is on the course.
••Your bar is set pretty high for other people. Jesus gave us the ultimate reward when he died for us while we were yet sinners.
High standards? YES! And we should all strive for those standards knowing that we are frail and sinful creatures. But, I refuse to say that because we are all weak and sinful that we shouldn't strive in righteousness. It is a worthy goal and one I can't even come close to without His help. I have a hard enough time WITH His help! But I am not what I used to be. God being my helper, I won't return to that either!
I know you didn't like at all the language Tiger used in the Masters. I know this will shock you, but my reaction to it, along with Vijay's words, and every other golfer, or NBA player, or MLB player, or any pro athlete who says something in the heat of the moment is....big deal. I'm not bothered by it. I don't care for people using the f-word every few words, but when it's said in frustration in the heat of the moment in a pro sporting event, It doesn't faze me. If we're going to start picking, Phil Mickelson has gambled millions of his money on sports gambling. Where are all the critics on that one?
I don't use "salty" language (mostly ) but I'm not bothered by it. I don't see anywhere in the bible it's forbidden, but the words that ARE forbidden, I don't care for, such as saying, "Jesus Christ" in frustration...which some do on this forum, just disguising it with a euphemism.
Ultimately, s-words and the like are slang and I would bet every nickel I have that you use some form of slang. If you say "Behind" to describe the hinder parts, you've used slang. I don't know a person who doesn't in some way. It's easy to justify one's slang while condemning the slang of another. Happens all the time. Jim Nance ripped Tiger for what he did, and THEN admitted that he does it to!!! Moronic.
You obviously have a problem with "salty" language, but I may have a problem with things you don't have a problem with, such as certain political jokes that you find funny.
It's incredibly freeing and liberating, joyful and energetic, to accept and love people for who they are, appreciate their gifts and talents, and pray for them as we look at them through the eyes of Jesus Christ and His cross.
Golf used to be referred to as the Gentleman's game. It's not like baseball, football or basketball. Obviously times have changed and younger, more vulgar players have emerged - like Woods and Singh and because of that unfortunately golf has changed.
Jim Nance ripped Woods for his outbursts, saying that if he were to say what mics captured Woods saying, he or any other broadcaster would be reprimanded.
I said Woods presser and "apology" was made up and scripted. It neither looked, nor felt real. Nothing about it seemed genuine. Well, we know now that the part about his controlling the outbursts was less than genuine; it will only be a matter of time before he's likely caught again having an affair with some other blonde bimbo.
Too bad golf isn't the game it was made to be back in the day.
I know you didn't like at all the language Tiger used in the Masters. I know this will shock you, but my reaction to it, along with Vijay's words, and every other golfer, or NBA player, or MLB player, or any pro athlete who says something in the heat of the moment is....big deal. I'm not bothered by it. I don't care for people using the f-word every few words, but when it's said in frustration in the heat of the moment in a pro sporting event, It doesn't faze me. If we're going to start picking, Phil Mickelson has gambled millions of his money on sports gambling. Where are all the critics on that one?
I
If you have such a negative view of our social past in this country, then all I can say is that you see what you want to see to justify your choices. If you can't see the moral decay in the past few decades then you are blind, indeed. Of course there was immorality taking place....but not to the degree that it is now! Not even close!
From my viewpoint, all I can say is that it appears that discipline and self-control, which are biblical hallmarks of the Christian life (not perfection) are not high on your priority list. That's your prerogative. I am certainly not a legalist, but nothing ever comes from a lack of discipline and self-control. Is it difficult? Absolutely! Do we fall along the way? Certainly! Yet in all of that, Jesus still told the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more. In other words, exercise self-discipline to do what is right and don't excuse sin with "humanity."
I also find it liberating, joyful and energetic to know that I don't have to be dominated by unrighteousness and habits that used to rule me. I can be more than a conqueror, but it is not easy. Winning never is...and if you want to win, you have to pay the price. That is also the way it is when it comes to family. If you can do one, you can do the other! Salvation is free, but a Christlike character costs everything. And no one achieves that with someone telling them that they're OK where they are. We are to strive and that takes discipline! I am secure in my salvation and my works don't secure that. However, my works/striving/discipline etc, (only with God's help) develop my character.
I also find it energizing when I encourage/coach someone to reach for their best in Jesus Christ. We can all do better and we need people around us to encourage us to do so and who believe in us. I always encourage them in their victories and there are always victories to encourage.
I would not expect ANYONE in the church I pastor to think it acceptable for me to use profanity even once. Self-control is a worthy goal and one that is not an option when it comes to Christianity!
I'm sure none of Tiger's coaches ever told him that it was OK to always be 10 over! That's not what we strive for.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
I couldn't agree more! 
JFK had more women than Tiger. And those grand old folks of yesteryear? They wouldn't let black people vote, wouldn't let women vote, and beat their women just as much as now.....we just didn't know about it. The "Leave It To Beaver" world was a fantasy. Very simply, the good ole days never existed.
I think we've covered that one and you weren't too fond of my observations!
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