We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Jesus was accused of the same thing.

So you "ain't" Jesus!

Besides, I didn’t get the memo stating that you were authorized to be the arbitrator of truth.

Scripture is truth and you don't like it.

Man is totally depraved and is incapable of achieving holiness in the human self.

Man is incapable of being perfect not of simply doing good.

Righteousness is imparted by God’s Spirit alone.

LOL seriously you need to learn what justice/righteousness is and it is not Reformed doctrines view of impartation like Lutzer and Sproul teach.


Conerning your comment. It is true but it depends on what it is in reference to. Technically it is wrong. Righteousness is imparted by the very Word of God or his divine expression in any form. The law was the righteousness of God. EVen reformed teachers teach that.

One cannot work their way to Heaven, for if righteousness could come by obedience to a law, Christ died in vain.

From that previous point to this you are talking about two different realities and point of Paul and confusing it with others.

In myself no I cannot do what God demands as I am flesh and I am spirit and I cannot in myself know God's perfection and how to do justice toward all. The reason Christ died has many aspects but it has nothing to do with negating practical righteousness to the leading of God will how we are judged to receive eternal life. Justice toward sin could not be acheived by the law to those who had faith. Christ had to obtain that authority of which the LAW was a shadow of. We recieve the righteousness of Christ in two ways. Perfection to do God's will by the Spirit and forgiveness of sin by a new covenant of which CHrist is head in which he imparts his nature/righteousness to us which is his LEADING to do. Instead of on stone it is by his Spirit in which we realize perfection. Not a forensic justification for eternity at faith but practical justification by our response to his leading. THAT is what prophecy says.

I see elements of Pelagianism (a false doctrine) in many of the posts you’ve written.

It wuld be semi-pelagianism. Oh and that would be the view of the first centuries of the church Mr. GREEK FATHERS!

No… we are righteous because He is righteous.

Really... Yes we are righteous because if we FOLLOW we will DO righteous because HE is righteous. LOL

The moment you are born again, you are declared righteous in God’s sight.

Really... That would be because the context of the message is to receive covenant standing by faith in his work. I am already seen right of heart before covenant standing when a person believes. That does not mean I have received salvation yet though nor does simply believing have I been forgiven and removed from me. Nor does it mean I have been born again. Simple belief is a "righteous thing" but it doesn't mean I am in right standing concerning my sins etc...

The born again Christian has a new nature, is a new creature. They WILL desire and practice righteousness. So we agree. However, we might disagree with the underlying causes and effects of the new nature we have received.

My son is four years old. While playing in the yard he stepped in dog poo. He hopped into the house on one foot crying and wanting me to clean his foot off. Why? Because he is human, he has a human nature.

You child seeing a "accident" immediately turned to be cleansed. Also I would have issue with

1) knowlege to do vs intentional.

Now, if he were a pig or a dog, he might have rolled around in it without any issues. The Christian is born again. A new nature has been given. A new nature now abides in the believer. The Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, is abiding in the believer.

The nature is the ABIDING Spirit and Jesus clearly teaches how abiding works. Paul also clearly teaches it. If you follow/led by which is a active realization of response you are children of God. That is a practical response to the righteousness/leading of the Spirit in which we are judged positionally.

The believer has now become ONE with Christ Jesus.

If he follows he is ONE.

When a born again believer sins, they will feel convicted of said sin. Why? Why don’t they just feel free to “live it up”? Because of the new nature

.

They feel conviction yes and the law brought convicion as well as does ALL KNOWLEDGE!

They realize that their actions are not congruent with the abiding nature within. They will desire to be clean.

Maybe maybe not.

In prayer they will fall before the Heavenly Father pleading for Him to cleanse them. Sin will therefore not be a “practice” or continued behavior for the born again Christian. It is IMPOSSIBLE. They are new creatures.

Partially true. you are making absolutes of black and white conversion and that is not the case NOR is it what scripture teaches. People are given the righteousness/spirit/nature of christ but that does not mean they remain and follow him. Grace is the impartation of the Spirit TO DO the will of God.

You are a male by nature. You might choose to wear women’s clothing, wear makeup, and even act like a woman. But you are NOT a woman. Why? Because you don’t have a female human nature. Now, if you’re born again, and the Spirit of Christ abides in you, guess what…you’ll want to give those dresses to a lady, stop wearing the makeup, and begin acting like the man you are. Why? Because Christ Himself is living through you.

YES IF I choose to CONTINUE TO FOLLOW! Because a person has received the knowledge/righteousness/leading/nature of the Spirit does not mean I will continue. I choose to be a SERVANT. His impartation of the Spirit does not make me obey.

The disciplines don’t make you righteous.

God giving you righteousness by Spirit vs writen code does not change how God does justice toward mans response. You are righeous because God leads you and you CHOOSE to walk by faith. The discipline is the SPIRIT. How in the world can you make the two not the same. LOL The law of the SPIRIT is our discipline and it is our righteousness by HIM who is the source of the righteousness. If we don't obey are not righteous.

I know men who have the Christian disciplines down, and put us all to shame. But…they don’t have that abiding relationship with Jesus. They are pure religionists. They think that their works make them righteousness.

Their works give them if led by the Spirit God's consideration and judgment of being "right of heart." If they are doing it through the flesh they will fail.

IF what you said is true then you are deceivd. HOW in the WORLD can a BY FLESH seeking righteousness put to shame the righteousness of someone who is led by the SPirit?

Their righteousness is self generated, a “self righteousness”. However, Luke, you have the Spirit of Jesus abiding in you. You are a partaker in the very nature of Jesus Christ. You have new nature.

Having a new nature imparted does not make me righteous in itself. It allows me to now the will of God. I am righteous IF I do the will of him that is in me not simply because HE is in me.

By virtue of your being a new creature…you LOVE righteousness and feel compelled, yes, even rejoice, in doing righteousness. But don’t take the credit. It’s not you…it’s Christ in you. Jesus is your everything. Jesus is the very air you breathe.

He is if I choose him not because he is there compelling me.

Many believers think that their actions determine if they love Jesus or not. And yes, actions are a gauge, but they are not the final determining factor. They are merely an indicator.

Uh for now I will say NO as I am unsure what your whole meaning is behind this statement.

Let me ask you a question. It will fully reveal if you’re looking at this legalistically, or biblically. How does a saint of God who is struggling with Christian disciplines and sin increase their love for Jesus, thereby bringing a life that is congruent with the new nature imparted to them?

If the Christain knows...

1) If they are struggling to do. They need to pray and fast and seek the elders of the church and the body and lean on God for his strength in the time of temptation. If they continue to fail most likely they are simply appeasing the flesh that... hey I tried. If you love me you will obey my commandments. He has not given us anything we cannot overcome. We don't dwell in sin.

I’d like to know your answer. I’ll share my thoughts afterwards. We both might be able to take away something from the other’s answer to this question.