Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
I agree with these passages, interestingly enough,( Colossians 1:15)says Jesus is the "firstborn" of all creation...that means He was "born of Mary" before Cain and Abel,
He was also the "First" to be raised from the dead, even (before) Lazarus, Jairus daughter. O.T. figures like the womans son that Elijah raised. etc.( Colossians 1:18)
He was the lamb "slain" from the "foundation' of the world. That means He was crucified before the world began. (REVELATION 13:8)
We dealt with that in the other thread, but you will not be satisfied to hear it once.
Ok, here we go again....
The prophecies in the O.T. are not bound by time...Notice carefully..Is.9:6
"For unto us a child IS born, unto us a son IS given(present tense, around 1000 years PRIOR to the virgin birth)
Same with Ps. 22:1-18...it starts with "my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me" it goes into the details of the crucifixion in the PRESENT TENSE... (1000 years approx. BEFORE the crucifixion. )
Romans 4:17 says..."God spoke of things that are not, as though they were."
MEANING GOD SPOKE OF THINGS THAT WERE NON EXISTENT AS THOUGH IT ALREADY HAPPENED!
JESUS HAS ALWAYS EXISTED IN THE MIND AND WILL OF GOD. HE(GOD) JUST READ THE WHOLE BOOK BEFORE IT HAPPENED...I am reconciling all of these passages that were written hundreds of years before they happened and nearly all of them are in the PRESENT TENSE. The standard prophecy uses future tense for things to come, BUT NOT MESSIANIC PROPHECIES... |
Jesus was not born before the woman that gave birth to him was born to say so simply shows a grasping at straws. The passage you refered to in colosians when taken context clearly is speaking of rank not actual birth order.
Col. 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things he might have the preeminence.
If Jesus created all things and was before all things how did he have a beginning point?
Even if you want to say that really it God the Father speaking the world into existance and those words were Jesus that still does not work because according to that line of reasoning there was a time when Jesus did not exist and the though of those words preceeded those words therefore Jesus was not before all things. Also those words would have been made by someone other than Jesus and that would have been something that Jesus did not make again contradicting the very passage you ascribe to. God may speak of things that havent yet happened as if they alread have but He does not speak of what did not happen as if it did that is called lying.
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