Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sean i quoted the Hebrew lexicon definition of the Hebrew word for tempt and it said test. Argue with the Hebrew. You actually argue with Hebrew scholars who do know Hebrew. Any thing to not admit error eh?

Admit error, I blew up your theory that God was not tempted with 4 scriptures that you seem to struggle with!



Mike you just go ahead and try to override your KJV translators all you want. The bottom line is you feel you have the right to change the words in the KJV bible as you wish.

I only recommend to folks to read their KJV Bible. Then if they have a problem with a word, go find an old dictionary if at all possible. Try to get the exact meaning of the word in question in their Bible, in its actual KJV translation, as it actually reads.

This generation simply does not agree with the KJV. That is why they "rediscover" the so called "true meanings" with "outside" sources like I see these days.(including using the FAKE translations and biased commentaries and lexicons.)

I only discuss the KJV as the true Bible....the words "God was tempted" are the true meanings.

Your problem is not with me here, it is with the KJV Bible.

How dare ANYONE, remove a word out of their KJV Bible and replace it with another word of their preference!




Psalms 78:56...
Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:

.Ps 78....Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:

Exodus 17:7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?

N.T.(GREEK)Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.


It clearly says that God was tempted...do you dare change the words you dont like?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sean

Admit error, I blew up your theory that God was not tempted with 4 scriptures that you seem to struggle with!



Mike you just go ahead and try to override your KJV translators all you want. The bottom line is you feel you have the right to change the words in the KJV bible as you wish.

I only recommend to folks to read their KJV Bible. Then if they have a problem with a word, go find an old dictionary if at all possible. Try to get the exact meaning of the word in question in their Bible, in its actual KJV translation, as it actually reads.

This generation simply does not agree with the KJV. That is why they "rediscover" the so called "true meanings" with "outside" sources like I see these days.(including using the FAKE translations and biased commentaries and lexicons.)

I only discuss the KJV as the true Bible....the words "God was tempted" are the true meanings.

Your problem is not with me here, it is with the KJV Bible.

How dare ANYONE, remove a word out of their KJV Bible and replace it with another word of their preference!




Psalms 78:56...
Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:

.Ps 78....Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:

Exodus 17:7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not?


N.T.(GREEK)Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.


It clearly says that God was tempted...do you dare change the words you dont like?

Once again there is a HUGE difference between "They tested God" and "God was tempted to commit evil"

You guys are using one word that has several meanings as if it only has one meaning

ESV Psa 78:56 Yet they tested and rebelled against the Most High God and did not keep his testimonies,

KJV Psa 78:56 Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:

Thats not the same as Temptations of the flesh

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Jas 1:13 Let no one being tempted say, I am tempted from God. For God is not tempted by evils, and He tempts no one.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them.

Testing God is not the same thing as Man being tempted by the flesh. God was not Tempted by his own flesh to sin.

Originally Posted by Sean

N.T.(GREEK)Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

That's not Greek. That's English

Tempt

peirasmós; gen. peirasmoú, masc. noun from peirázō (G3985), to make trial of, try, tempt. Trial, temptation, a putting to the test, spoken of persons only. When God is the agent, peirasmós is for the purpose of proving someone, never for the purpose of causing him to fall. If it is the devil who tempts, then it is for the purpose of causing one to fall.

(I) Generally, trial of one's character (1Pe_4:12, "to try [or prove] you"). By implication, trial of one's virtue, temptation, solicitation to sin, especially from Satan (Luk_4:13; 1Ti_6:9).

(II) Trial, temptation.
(A) A state of trial in which God brings His people through adversity and affliction in order to encourage and prove their faith and confidence in Him (Mat_6:13; Mat_26:41; Mar_14:38; Luk_8:13; Luk_11:4, "bring us not into a state of trial" [a.t.], lay not trials upon us; Luk_22:40, Luk_22:46; 1Co_10:13; Jam_1:2, Jam_1:12; 1Pe_1:6; 2Pe_2:9; Sept.: Deu_7:19; Deu_29:3). Hence used metonymically for adversity, affliction, sorrow (Luk_22:28; Act_20:19; Gal_4:14; Rev_3:10).

(B) In the opposite way, man "tempts" God by distrusting Him and complaining to Him (Heb_3:8 quoted from Psa_95:8; Sept.: Exo_17:7; Deu_9:22).


You are confusing "Being tempted to sin or do evil" with humans attempting to test God

Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, "Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin."

Deu 6:16 "You shall not put the LORD your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Once again there is a HUGE difference between "They tested God" and "God was tempted to commit evil"

You guys are using one word that has several meanings as if it only has one meaning



ESV Psa 78:56 Yet they tested and rebelled against the Most High God and did not keep his testimonies,

This is the same as this?...The ESV is a FAKE translation(different word meanings)

KJV Psa 78:56 Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:



Thats not the same as Temptations of the flesh

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Jas 1:13 Let no one being tempted say, I am tempted from God. For God is not tempted by evils, and He tempts no one.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them.

Testing God is not the same thing as Man being tempted by the flesh. God was not Tempted by his own flesh to sin.



That's not Greek. That's English

Tempt

peirasmós; gen. peirasmoú, masc. noun from peirázō (G3985), to make trial of, try, tempt. Trial, temptation, a putting to the test, spoken of persons only. When God is the agent, peirasmós is for the purpose of proving someone, never for the purpose of causing him to fall. If it is the devil who tempts, then it is for the purpose of causing one to fall.

(I) Generally, trial of one's character (1Pe_4:12, "to try [or prove] you"). By implication, trial of one's virtue, temptation, solicitation to sin, especially from Satan (Luk_4:13; 1Ti_6:9).

(II) Trial, temptation.
(A) A state of trial in which God brings His people through adversity and affliction in order to encourage and prove their faith and confidence in Him (Mat_6:13; Mat_26:41; Mar_14:38; Luk_8:13; Luk_11:4, "bring us not into a state of trial" [a.t.], lay not trials upon us; Luk_22:40, Luk_22:46; 1Co_10:13; Jam_1:2, Jam_1:12; 1Pe_1:6; 2Pe_2:9; Sept.: Deu_7:19; Deu_29:3). Hence used metonymically for adversity, affliction, sorrow (Luk_22:28; Act_20:19; Gal_4:14; Rev_3:10).

(B) In the opposite way, man "tempts" God by distrusting Him and complaining to Him (Heb_3:8 quoted from Psa_95:8; Sept.: Exo_17:7; Deu_9:22).


You are confusing "Being tempted to sin or do evil" with humans attempting to test God

Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, "Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin."

Deu 6:16 "You shall not put the LORD your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

Prax, you said all that to say the KJV translators were wrong and you and your FAKE, ESV Bible and its modern day, copyright restricted author, using FAKE GREEK, is the "more accurate" translation......

Read this folks, your faith in your Bible is under attack .....https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...78677474,d.cGU

Here is the TRUE translation, in your KJV...
Deuteronomy 6:16
16 Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.


tempt (tmpt)
v. tempt·ed, tempt·ing, tempts
v.tr.
1. To try to get (someone) to do wrong, especially by a promise of reward.
2. To be inviting or attractive to: A second helping tempted me. We refused the offer even though it tempted us. See Synonyms at lure.
3. To provoke or to risk provoking: Don't tempt fate.
4. To cause to be strongly disposed: He was tempted to walk out.



Exodus 20:20
20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

prove
pro͞ov/Submit
verb
1.
demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument.
"the concept is difficult to prove"
synonyms: show (to be true), demonstrate (the truth of), show beyond doubt, manifest, produce proof/evidence;



All other bibles, other than the Received Text bibles(KJV), are derived from a "counterfeit" Greek of two heretic authors...Westcott and Hort

[mfblume]

Sean, you said...

Originally Posted by Sean

Prax, you said all that to say the KJV translators were wrong and you and your FAKE, ESV Bible and its modern day, copyright restricted author, using FAKE GREEK, is the "more accurate" translation......

Read this folks, your faith in your Bible is under attack .....https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...78677474,d.cGU

Here is the TRUE translation, in your KJV...
Deuteronomy 6:16
16 Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

The KING JAMES VERSION is from the Majority Text. IT IS ACCURATE. Most Accurate./ But what you fail to know is that the Hebrews Scholars who studied the TEXT of the KING JAMES VERSION and the majority text's Hebrew Old Testament know HEBREW better than you!

And they took the HEBREW WORD translated in THE KING JAMES VERSION and said THAT WORD IS THE SAME HEBREW WORD THAT MEANS TEST.

Deuteronomy 6:16 KJV+ Ye shall notH3808 temptH5254 (H853) the LORDH3068 your God,H430 asH834 ye temptedH5254 him in Massah.H4532

Do you know what those numbers are beside the words in the KJV translation? they're James Strong's Numbers that reference the Hebrew Lexicon for the Hebrew words that King James had Translated form the Majority text into English. And when you go to the HEBREW REFERENCE for TEMPT in Deut 6:16, you get THIS DEFINITION.

H5254
נסה
nâsâh
naw-saw'
A primitive root; to test; by implication to attempt: - adventure, assay, prove, tempt, try.

THAT IS FROM THE RECEIVED TEXT'S HEBREW!!!!

Read it out loud to yourself this time.

So, when the ESV used the word "TEST", they were agreeing with the scholars of the Hebrew who defined the terms the KING JAMES VERSION translated into English for us.

YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE HEBREW DEFINITION!

[mfblume]

Sean, why can you not respond to my points and give me answers about satan tempting JESUS TO TEMPT GOD??

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sean, why can you not respond to my points and give me answers about satan tempting JESUS TO TEMPT GOD??

Like I said Mike, you dont agree with the KJV bible and are trying to redefine the actual words by a COMMENTATORS" definition.....

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Like I said Mike, you dont agree with the KJV bible and are trying to redefine the actual words by a COMMENTATORS" definition.....

No, they're not commentators. lol THEY ARE KJV HEBREW SCHOLARS. Now, answer again.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Once again there is a HUGE difference between "They tested God" and "God was tempted to commit evil"

You guys are using one word that has several meanings as if it only has one meaning



ESV Psa 78:56 Yet they tested and rebelled against the Most High God and did not keep his testimonies,

This is the same as this?...The ESV is a FAKE translation(different word meanings)

Now I see the problem you have. First of all, it was proven that the word there means Tested by brother Blume.

Second of all, it's more accurate than a translation that was made in a language nobody but false prophets and shakesperean actors talk in.

When they translated the KJV the word Tempt Meant TEST. Research it

KJV Psa 78:56 Yet they tempted and provoked the most high God, and kept not his testimonies:



Thats not the same as Temptations of the flesh

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Jas 1:13 Let no one being tempted say, I am tempted from God. For God is not tempted by evils, and He tempts no one.
Jas 1:14 But each one is tempted by his lusts, being drawn away and seduced by them.

Testing God is not the same thing as Man being tempted by the flesh. God was not Tempted by his own flesh to sin.



That's not Greek. That's English

Tempt

peirasmós; gen. peirasmoú, masc. noun from peirázō (G3985), to make trial of, try, tempt. Trial, temptation, a putting to the test, spoken of persons only. When God is the agent, peirasmós is for the purpose of proving someone, never for the purpose of causing him to fall. If it is the devil who tempts, then it is for the purpose of causing one to fall.

(I) Generally, trial of one's character (1Pe_4:12, "to try [or prove] you"). By implication, trial of one's virtue, temptation, solicitation to sin, especially from Satan (Luk_4:13; 1Ti_6:9).

(II) Trial, temptation.
(A) A state of trial in which God brings His people through adversity and affliction in order to encourage and prove their faith and confidence in Him (Mat_6:13; Mat_26:41; Mar_14:38; Luk_8:13; Luk_11:4, "bring us not into a state of trial" [a.t.], lay not trials upon us; Luk_22:40, Luk_22:46; 1Co_10:13; Jam_1:2, Jam_1:12; 1Pe_1:6; 2Pe_2:9; Sept.: Deu_7:19; Deu_29:3). Hence used metonymically for adversity, affliction, sorrow (Luk_22:28; Act_20:19; Gal_4:14; Rev_3:10).

(B) In the opposite way, man "tempts" God by distrusting Him and complaining to Him (Heb_3:8 quoted from Psa_95:8; Sept.: Exo_17:7; Deu_9:22).


You are confusing "Being tempted to sin or do evil" with humans attempting to test God

Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, "Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin."

Deu 6:16 "You shall not put the LORD your God to the test, as you tested him at Massah.

Prax, you said all that to say the KJV translators were wrong and you and your FAKE, ESV Bible and its modern day, copyright restricted author, using FAKE GREEK, is the "more accurate" translation.

....

Is that really the best argument you can come up with? Seriously?

Read this folks, your faith in your Bible is under attack .....https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...78677474,d.cGU

Here is the TRUE translation, in your KJV...
Deuteronomy 6:16
16 Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

So the the KJV is contradicting itself saying God can't be tempted but you come alone and say he can?

tempt (tmpt)
v. tempt·ed, tempt·ing, tempts
v.tr.
1. To try to get (someone) to do wrong, especially by a promise of reward.
2. To be inviting or attractive to: A second helping tempted me. We refused the offer even though it tempted us. See Synonyms at lure.
3. To provoke or to risk provoking: Don't tempt fate.
4. To cause to be strongly disposed: He was tempted to walk out.

You should have given the link to that dictionary to see what you left out

1175-1225; Middle English < Latin temptāre to probe, feel, test, tempt
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tempt

that's the problem with reading a bible translated into an outdated language

Exodus 20:20
20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

prove
pro͞ov/Submit
verb
1.
demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument.
"the concept is difficult to prove"
synonyms: show (to be true), demonstrate (the truth of), show beyond doubt, manifest, produce proof/evidence;

right PROVE. Same word is translated TEMPT in the KJV in other verses.

And once again the word Prove, before Modern English, meant TEST

1125-75; Middle English proven < Old French prover < Latin probāre to try, test, prove, approve, derivative of probus good.

But in our modern english Proving someone is not TEMPTING someone to sin

All other bibles, other than the Received Text bibles(KJV), are derived from a "counterfeit" Greek of two heretic authors...Westcott and Hort

ROFL...so you are a KJVO and a conspiracy theorist too?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

....

Is that really the best argument you can come up with? Seriously?



So the the KJV is contradicting itself saying God can't be tempted but you come alone and say he can?



You should have given the link to that dictionary to see what you left out

1175-1225; Middle English < Latin temptāre to probe, feel, test, tempt
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tempt

that's the problem with reading a bible translated into an outdated language


right PROVE. Same word is translated TEMPT in the KJV in other verses.

And once again the word Prove, before Modern English, meant TEST

1125-75; Middle English proven < Old French prover < Latin probāre to try, test, prove, approve, derivative of probus good.

But in our modern english Proving someone is not TEMPTING someone to sin
ROFL...so you are a KJVO and a conspiracy theorist too?

The KJV is not translated into an "outdated language". The problrm is English has been degraded to the point that many modern English speakers can only barely understand their own native tongue. While I do not claim the KJV is PERFECT it is better than any modern translation I've seen, on several levels:

1. The superiority of the "textus receptus" over the ever-changing hybrid minority texts of Westcott-Hort or Nestle-Aland.

2. Its retention of gender and person/number specific pronouns not found in modern colloquial English.

3. A beauty and reverence and depth in phraseology not found in ANY English version before or since. There is a reason the KJV (and Shakespeare) occupy the places they do in the history of English literature. We should be striving upward not downward. He who controls the language controls thought and idea. Dumbed down language leads to dumbed down thinking, something clearly evident in society today.

4. The psalms especially, but other texts as well, as found in the KJV, are more suitable for the genuinely American (and Scot-Welsh-English) preaching and singing styles which are almost extinct these days. The text is written in a way that can be preached and sung/chanted powerfully and expressively in English which stylistic quality is generally lacking in other English translations.

5. Actual familiarity with and use and STUDY of the KJV increases literacy more so than other English versions, generally speaking. I have witnessed it first hand as a homeschooling parent and as a neighbor to public school kids who have been influenced by my own kids.

The KJV is simply put the OVERALL most beautiful, most expressive, most reverent, most powerful English translation yet, and still unsurpassed. University level English majors and hick country preachers and all in between have been blessed by it, love it, use it, and recommend it. As do I.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The KJV is not translated into an "outdated language". The problrm is English has been degraded to the point that many modern English speakers can only barely understand their own native tongue. While I do not claim the KJV is PERFECT it is better than any modern translation I've seen, on several levels:

that is just not true. Study languages and you'll see that all languages evolve over time. The English they spoke in 1600 is not the same as today. We don't see "Ye" and "thou" because our language has evolved.

Many words used THEN have evolved in meaning. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because it still means the language of the KJV is outdated...from an era that is long past, from a time when words did not always mean what they mean today.

Yes Victorian English is outdated