Are all Catholics lost?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by mfblume

If someone thinks standards save then they're lost. Period. I don't care who they are. It's nothing but the blood that saves. I really don't know anyone who thinks standards save.

Wow that is shockingly direct, but I'd disagree with you on both points. I think someone can be legalistic and still be saved, despite their total ignorance. I'm not saying all legalists are saved, and those who teach are in greater danger. But I've known many "simple"oneness people who could not really discern God's Word and commands from the standards of the local church and pastor. I have hope that by God's,grace they will be saved.

Second, i find your statement that you "dont know anyone who really thinks standards save" frankly shocking. You no doubt know more OPs than I, and I'd certainly say that many or most I've known certainly believe that standards save. They wouldn't use that phrase, but certainly believe if they cut their hair, wire pants, make up, failed to tithe, went to a sporting event or movie, etc that their salvation would be in jeopardy.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I am talking about the serious issues that deal with Hebrews 6:1-2's elements. There are issues we can be off on and still be saved. But there are others we cannot be off on and be saved. When someone says the bible does NOT contain all the truth God wants, I cannot believe such a person is saved. That's not even on the same level as someone keeping sabbath as opposed to another who does not. there are degrees of what is acceptable and what is not.

I know I am not 100% on everything. But we are talking about major major issues like the things I listed in Catholic's beliefs. Are you saying you sincerely believe a person can think the Bible does Not contain all truth and still be saved? What kinds of beliefs are not in the bible that one is required to know that are in reality damnable? Who knows? the sky's the limit.

But are you saying the things I listed as beliefs of the Catholic church can be overlooked and don't affect salvation?

No, mostly I agree here. I dont think someone has to believe in inerrancy to be saved. There are major doctrines that are important. Personally I'm not willing to condemn all Catholics, and certainly not all Catholics of all time. But of all the "Christian" denominations or "churches", I'd have the most concerns for Catholics because of their superstition and outright idolatry, their legalism, their theology, and Revelation 17 (depending on one's interpretation of course).

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jason B

Wow that is shockingly direct, but I'd disagree with you on both points. I think someone can be legalistic and still be saved, despite their total ignorance. I'm not saying all legalists are saved, and those who teach are in greater danger. But I've known many "simple"oneness people who could not really discern God's Word and commands from the standards of the local church and pastor. I have hope that by God's,grace they will be saved.

Second, i find your statement that you "dont know anyone who really thinks standards save" frankly shocking. You no doubt know more OPs than I, and I'd certainly say that many or most I've known certainly believe that standards save. They wouldn't use that phrase, but certainly believe if they cut their hair, wire pants, make up, failed to tithe, went to a sporting event or movie, etc that their salvation would be in jeopardy.


No, mostly I agree here. I dont think someone has to believe in inerrancy to be saved. There are major doctrines that are important. Personally I'm not willing to condemn all Catholics, and certainly not all Catholics of all time. But of all the "Christian" denominations or "churches", I'd have the most concerns for Catholics because of their superstition and outright idolatry, their legalism, their theology, and Revelation 17 (depending on one's interpretation of course).

Catholic idolatry?

Who is this a picture of?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jason B

Wow that is shockingly direct, but I'd disagree with you on both points. I think someone can be legalistic and still be saved, despite their total ignorance. I'm not saying all legalists are saved, and those who teach are in greater danger.

How can a soul who believes standards save them be saved, when the bible demands we believe nothing we do can save us, lest we boast and take the glory to ourselves?

What do you mean by legalistic?

If people think the cross PLUS THEIR WORKS save them, then I am fearful for their souls. If they attribute to salvation something other than the blood, hooboy....

But I've known many "simple"oneness people who could not really discern God's Word and commands from the standards of the local church and pastor. I have hope that by God's,grace they will be saved.

Second, i find your statement that you "dont know anyone who really thinks standards save" frankly shocking. You no doubt know more OPs than I, and I'd certainly say that many or most I've known certainly believe that standards save.

I may have come across some who do, but that is utterly blasphemous. How can God overlook that, brother. Explain it to me. Explain to me how we are not saved by works but by his grace through faith, lets we boast, and yet those who think they are saved by their works can be saved.

They wouldn't use that phrase, but certainly believe if they cut their hair, wire pants, make up, failed to tithe, went to a sporting event or movie, etc that their salvation would be in jeopardy.

Ahh.. here's where I think you're missing something. If someone thinks LACK OF DOING SOMETHING causes them to lose salvation, they are standing on a valid principle. And if they think the start of something they are avoiding will lose their salvation then it's the same thing. That is valid. I think their concept of what it is we cease doing or start doinjg may be offkey, but that does not mean they think salvation initially comes from doing or not doing those things.

For example, if I start cursing and swearing and hating people, then I lose my salvation. that does not mean refraining from cussing and swearing and hatred saves me. It just means the salvation that THE CROSS ALONE gave me is TOSSED away when I commit sins.

It's like saying the fire on the candlesticks was started by GOD, not man. Man must keep it burning, though, by trimming the wicks. Trimming the wicks is not what started the fire. but failure to trim the wicks will see the fire go out.

Similarly, letting go of the resistance to hatred, and giving in to hatred, will cause me to lose my salvation, but resisting hatred is not what gave me salvation.

No, mostly I agree here. I dont think someone has to believe in inerrancy to be saved. There are major doctrines that are important. Personally I'm not willing to condemn all Catholics, and certainly not all Catholics of all time. But of all the "Christian" denominations or "churches", I'd have the most concerns for Catholics because of their superstition and outright idolatry, their legalism, their theology, and Revelation 17 (depending on one's interpretation of course).

When the catholic doctrine teaches there are truths not contained in the bible that we must know to be saved, then a catholic is a catholic because they believe that teaching. I cannot see how holding such a belief can see someone saved, for what doctrines outside the scripture might they cling to that are utterly damnable?