Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Jesus said, "He that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" ( John 6:37)
The Apostle John said:
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. ( 1 John 5:11-13)
Previously he had said:
"If you believe that Jesus is the Christ --that He is God's Son and your Savior-- then you are a child of God." ( 1 John 5:1) |
Is that your best evidence, brother?
I thought just for once, someone was going to come with better scriptures than that. Anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Jesus said, "He that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" ( John 6:37) |
Cast out? If someone repents but doesn't receive the Holy Ghost right away, it doesn't mean they're being
"cast out". The believers in
Acts 8 came to God, got baptized, but didn't get the Holy Ghost immediately... but it didn't mean they were "cast out"; they just didn't have the Holy Ghost yet, thats all. Then after Peter and John prayed for God to give it to them, they got it.
I don't see how being "cast out" would even apply here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Previously he had said:
" If you believe that Jesus is the Christ --that He is God's Son and your Savior-- then you are a child of God." ( 1 John 5:1)
|
or to use the King James version of that:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."
If we want to pull verses out of the proper overall NT context, one might also try to say that anyone who
just believes is saved". Using your apparent train of thought here...
... Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".
But a person walking into a church and saying "I believe" ... that by itself doesn't make him saved, does it? Same concept. Believing is key, but thats only the beginning. It certainly doesn't constitute salvation in and of itself.
Or... we could go to a ridiculous extreme, if we're just going to quote scripture, without proper context and balance.For example how about
Acts 2:14" And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." ?
If someone told you he literally
"called on the name" of Jesus so therefore he's saved,would you tell him he's correct? The Lord's name is Jesus. So He
calls on Jesus' name and this literal "
calling on the name" = salvation? That wouldn't make any sense, and of course no one really believes or teaches that. But its the same concept as what you (and many other PCI-type thinkers) seem to propose ,if you say one becomes a child of God just because they
"believe" that Jesus is the Christ.
1 John 5:1 is not a proof text of any kind concerning the salvation plan per se; it doesn't even
mention repentance, which we know is critical to salvation.
---
So how do you say that anyone who believes and accepts Jesus has the Holy Ghost? What scripture really backs that up?
So back to the question of "
how you know a person has received the Holy Ghost?" ... Didn't the believers in
Acts 10 know that the new believers in
Acts 10 got the Holy Ghost
because they spoke in tongues?
"for they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God" Acts 10:46
Where did the believers ever accept that someone received the Holy Ghost simply because they "accepted Jesus" or "believed" ?
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