I've heard that statistic, but I strongly doubt it that its accurate, at least as far as Acts 2:38 saints are concerned. That statistic seems to be based on all people who identify themselves as "Christians", or active churchgoers, not Apostolic saints per se.
So since all the polls/surveys on this are mainly dealing with Baptists, Evangelicals, Methodists, etc., that will definitely skew the numbers, but we in the Apostolic church cant look at the published "divorce rate among Christians" as really being accurate for the Apostolic church. As far as I know,theres never been a true poll or survey of the divorce rate among Apostolics. But I'd say the rate is very low. If I had to take a best guess, I'd say probably in the 5-8% range or so, just from what I've observed over the years. (I'm sure some of the Apostolic pastors here can give us a more accurate estimate.)
I followed the trends for many years. I observed that about half the couples in an Apostolic church had either already been divorced or did divorce over a ten year time period.
I did not count the "pre-conversion" divorces either. Just the saints. Some remarried and redivorced, though that was very rare. And then looking overall at people's lives, I noticed that there was a huge number of people who were married when they converted, but the conversion coincided with a divorce. Conversion of one of the partners must put a lot of strain on a marriage. Or it could be that a disintegrating marriage can lead a person to a religious conversion.
Not sure if I'm the Bishop Thad is referring to........I hope not. Divorce is an ugly (no matter how amicable) and extremely hurtful thing for everyone concerned. The children, the couple, all of the extended family, the church, the pastor and the list goes on and on. Many, IMO, Apostolic pastors have very little understanding on how to counsel marriages/families when things are going relatively well, let alone when things go bad. And may I add that often times the advice they do give is wrong.
I may get stoned for my next statements, however, IMO, it is not the will of God for anyone to remain in a relationship where abuse (whether physical, emotional, spiritual, or sexual) is happening without proper intervention and actions being taken. This does not mean that every case should end in divorce; if the right counsel was given and the right things done many divorces could be avoided. However, the same God who defines love, is the same God who hates abuse! In fact if you study out the root definition of the word, you will find that abuse is one of the facets of fornication, and the last time I checked, the Word lists fornication as one of the grounds for divorce.
The healing and future spiritual/relational success of those effected by divorce will greatly depend on the support system in which they are able to find themselves. As I have read through this thread, I realize how much some of you are hurting, and you may not even recognize it yourself, because you have had to pick up the pieces and keep on going just to survive. I am moved by your hurt and I will be praying for you.
Please know that you are important, and that you have great worth. You may carry some wounds, that still hurt when they are touched or prodded, but you are not damaged goods. Damaged goods are reduced in value and discounted, or discarded, but God does not see you that way, and neither will his true children. Quit believing what your ex said you were never going to be, or what they proclaimed you would always be. God has spoken good things about you, and to you that are yet to come. You serve a God who is able to make your latter days to be greater than your your darkest past.
Your Servant in Christ
I believe Thad was referring to Bishop1. However, I may be wrong.
Nonetheless thank you for a compassionate Christ-like post.
I don't think you can be stoned for your statements ... they are based in the Word and the love of our Lord.
I believe Thad was referring to Bishop1. However, I may be wrong.
Nonetheless thank you for a compassionate Christ-like post.
I don't think you can be stoned for your statements ... they are based in the Word and the love of our Lord.
Agreed.
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You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
I think it comes from fear that the prevalence of divorce in the world will infiltrate the church. I know in mainstream Christianity it's become much more accepted and so instead of being kind, longsuffering, gentle with the hurting or even the sinning... Church folks get freaked out and do a lot more damage.
There has to be balance... we have to stand for marriage because there is a very real enemy who attacks our marriages and homes, as well as our own humanity that causes marital strife... but we also have to be filled with love toward those who are facing this, and understanding.
It's a delicate balance.
Yes! We do have to stand for marriage... One thing my husband told me before we ever were married was that we were going to have to "talk" and not "yell and scream". I came from a home where my mother and father NEVER yelled at eachother... No lost tempers at all. But it wasn't perfect. When tension rose, and there should have been an argument, there was silence. The silent treatment was terrible. My father would talk to my brother and I but ignore my mother. That was awful! My mother, when hurt, would go away to her room quietly... Unfortunately, I also learned how to "not communicate" when things are rough.
My husband grew up in a very different home. Being brought up by an Italian and a very strong, opinionated mother, there were lots of yelling, fights, throwing of dishes, etc... He was determined not to have that kind of marriage. So here we are and to this day, we have never had a fight! Sure we've had disagreements, but he's never raised his voice at me! (he's incredible) He has also helped me to talk when I wanted to go off and pout...have a pity party...
My children have never seen us fight or scream at eachother. They don't know what it's like to have mama and daddy fight. We are teaching them how to love and respect the one you love. It is constant work on both sides. Trust me, there have been times I just wanted to go off on him, and many more times he wanted to bite my head off.... but we both think before we speak and if whatever we want to say would hurt the other, we refrain. I try not to say anything that I will be apologizing for!
It takes two! baby! it takes two!
__________________
I never met a chocolate I didn't like!
*sigh* I did nothing yesterday.... I wasn't finished so I did nothing again today!
There are so many different things that affect marriages today. And what may destroy one marriage may have no effect on another marriage at all.
For instance... I was young when I married and I didn't know my husband long beforehand... our backgrounds were so different... he came from a broken home, I from a whole one... he came from abuse, I never knew anything but love and care. So needless to say, with the big hour of counselling we recieved by the pastor that married us... we had issues right from the start of our "I do"s.
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Mrs. LPW, Please do not apologize for speaking your heart. These are very good issues you bring out.
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The "1" hour of counsel was not counsel at all...a point I have been making for years now.
Family of origin issues bring up problems with a married couple and their expectations right from the start - so very true!
Marrying young leaves you little experience to draw from
And what affects the success or downfall of one marriage may be the strength of another - so true!
I know another couple who did the same, knew each other a short time.. married quick and in all honesty they haven't had any serious troubles at all over the years. So everyone and every marriage is different.
But one thing is true... there just isn't enough counsel, there isn't enough preparation, there isn't enough support once married.
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This is so true of many marriages. They marry young and have no Godly counsel or support. Many times what appears to be the problem from a church looking in on the couple from the outside is really not the problem at all. For church leadership to side with one over the other without looking at the whole picture and externalizing the problem only alienates one and they feel hopeless and not heard or understood. This is why it is very important that the couple have a safe place/unbiased counsel that is bound by ethics of confidentiality and HIPPA laws.
If you take the tendency for Apostolic young people to marry young, couple it with the lack of support and counsel in most of our churches, add the fact that we are bombarded by the immoral and humanistic ideals every day at work, school, and in the media... it's a sure fire recipe for marital breakdown.
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This is true. In church it is easy to want to hide problems to not bring reproach upon the church [what we have been taught], but in putting this guilt on the victim it propagates continues abuse in some situations.
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What happens is one of the spouses put up with, put up with - until their mid-30's when they realize they have a voice, have choices, and don't have to stay in these ungodly situations. This is why you see may church divorces in the mid to late 30's.
I've said it in a previous post.. but I'll just state it again for the record... There are circumstances. Abuses etc... That warrant the abused party to leave...
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ABSOLUTELY!
But what I'm seeing (at least in my area and in my life's travels and experiences) is the ideals of the world (ie you're not happy, you'd be happier single or happier with someone else) creeping into the mainstream church world. This is always scary to me. Does anyone else understand what I'm trying to say? I'm not very good at wording things sometimes... so I read and re-read my posts... I can't seem to completely express what I'm saying and I always fear offending someone who's been through a divorce.
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The truth is the truth whether it offends or not. The world does have an influence on the church and our world/USA is very narcissitic and they think every individual has the 'right' to be happy regardless of the others it hurts. This is a lie fromt he pit.
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Many times our not being 'happy' is not about another person making us unhappy as much as it is about our hearts, desires, and goals not being focused on God and his plan for our life
I guess what I'm saying is... take the music industry for example.. the Christian music industry. We have two of the Martin's family... Amy Grant... Sandy Patti (Sandi Patty... never could remember how she spells it)
It just seems like it's more and more accepted to end your marriage and start a new one. And sometimes there is no abuse involved... sometimes it's just rocky... you don't get along "irreconcilable differences"
So where do we, as a church, say... wait... we've got to stop this. We've got to heal these marriages... we've got to not take "divorce" for an answer?
At the extreme risk of someone thinking I'm saying they didn't put enough effort into saving their marriage I am saying this. I'm actually really nervous about hitting the submit reply button.. I don't want ANYONE to feel like I'm inferring they didn't do enough to save their marriages.
I think the "church" is letting down it's saints in this department... and having gone through some things myself I'm wondering where the answers lie.
And I'm wondering how many marriages have to fall apart for our minsters to realize we really need more marital support in this day and age.
This is long... forgive me. The topic of marriage and God's plan and healing of marriages is close to my heart.[/quote]
Mrs. LPW,
You have indeed well said everything here! Excellent post! We need to example God's plan for marriages and structure our church Bible Lessons and classrooms for all of this. We need marriage enrichment seminars that are easily affordable if not free to church membership. We need marriage counseling, pre-marital counseling, and support groups for sinlges, single parent families, young married couples, older couples mentoring younger couples, child rearing classes, individual counsleing, ect.
You have hit many major issues and did and excellent job of discussing them.
...now if only there was something we could do to shake the ministry up on this one. Our district hasn't had a good marriage retreat in years... first they got rid of them altogether, and the last few were more expensive to go to than previous years.
You said something Rhoni, that struck a chord with me. You mentioned how there is the worry that if a separation or divorce would occur it would bring reproach on the church.
One (just one) of the big factors for us sticking it out was the fact that my mother's entire family are Anglican, and they've never known this wonderful Holy Ghost experience... and not one of her sisters and brother's marriages have broken up. At some of our lowest points it was in my mind that I wanted to keep the best witness possible for their sake...
Other factors were of course, I loved my dysfunctional hubby in spite of everything and I didn't want to displease the Lord either.
We have a young couple friend... married just a short time compared to us... but we know they argue alot... and it hurts us to hear them. It brings back a PILE of memories! I don't think they've gotten as bad as we had, but if they don't learn to work through these differences now, in five years they may have drifted too far apart. Our movement is going to suffer greatly if they don't figure out how to minister to the married. (as well as the single/never married and the divorced)
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
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