College is the ultimate time of testing -- what was put into them? Were they "trained up as a child" and did they understand their faith. I'm not sure which University you attended, but for a thinker, they have long been graveyards for Christians. At the very least, one may still cling to Christianity, but under the hood the car has a blown up motor.
It's not just about being "leftist" either, which would imply simply politics. But rather it's a worldview that tries to see the world apart from God, historical revisioning, subtlties (and sometimes not so subtle). It's not a bad thing, but it's right for parents to share concern and want to pray over them. This is the wilderness experience for many. Thankfully, enough have gone through the system and have come out as educated Christians, not cynical secularists. The history of the University being a place that was shut down for prayer meetings, is a thing of the past. Today's University touts atheism and deism. Major studies have been done on this, dealing with the demographics of faculty. It's not simply stereotype, it's quite true. My own faith was tested and in crisis under the influence of many professors. Thanks be to God that I made it through with a clear head, and stronger appetite for truth.
Maybe if critical thinking was taught before they learned it at college, they wouldn't have any problems. I think that is the issue. "We believe this because we're right" just doesn't cut it at a university.
I have a four year degree and I don't think my Christian beliefs were challenged at all. And yes, I had a few wacko professors.
Last edited by Pragmatist; 07-01-2009 at 03:41 PM.
Maybe if critical thinking was taught before they learned it at college, they wouldn't have any problems. I think that is the issue. "We believe this because we're right" just doesn't cut it at a university.
I have a four year degree and I don't think my Christian beliefs were challenged at all. And yes, I had a few wacko professors.
True. And I would add you are the exception. Look at the studies done on this subject. There's plenty of scholarly information out there. Most freshman haven't thought about Plato, Aristotle, Freud, Nieztche and the like. They have never had to consider another's position that there "is no God" or that "there is a God, but he isn't concerned with your affairs." This isn't even specifically about Christianity, it's about faith. Then you have your historical revisionists that attempt to lob little things in their to cause you to questions your belief in Jesus Christ as well.
My beliefs in Christ were most certainly changed -- but all for the positive! It was hard not to have a different appearance after a 5 years at the University! When you wrestle, it's not always pretty.
Critical Thinking alone isn't enough for a professor that has more credibility in most student's eyes than a preacher, who has a pulpit to say what he wants, how he wants to say and has no need to build the student up -- they have succeeded if they can just tear them down. Let's not be naive. Too many of us have been there, done that and understand it's a battlefield in the classroom. Wisdom University, True-U, TruthProject are all responses to this problem.
College is the ultimate time of testing -- what was put into them? Were they "trained up as a child" and did they understand their faith. I'm not sure which University you attended, but for a thinker, they have long been graveyards for Christians. At the very least, one may still cling to Christianity, but under the hood the car has a blown up motor.
I'm in school right now. This isn't a past tense thing for me, in any way. I'm avoiding an assignment right this moment by checking in here. lol
I don't think it's college at fault. I left home and moved quite a lot of miles away. The freedom to think for myself existed, and I took it. I didn't really have a foundation, or rather, the foundation I had was found to be full of cracks and lies and inconsistencies and I just walked away from it all. I wasn't in college then. I was just a married woman with young children and a library card and internet access.
I think if Universities are a graveyard for Christians, Christianity is seriously lacking. Maybe the focus really should be on what's being missed and not on avoiding something that might make a person think and realize that they're coming up short changed. You'll never convince me that thinking is a bad thing. And you'll never convince me that God can't stand up to extraordinary questioning. If the beliefs these kids are taking into college are crumbling when they're faced with ideas (that they should have already been exposed to, IMO!) then something isn't adding up.
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
True. And I would add you are the exception. Look at the studies done on this subject. There's plenty of scholarly information out there. Most freshman haven't thought about Plato, Aristotle, Freud, Nieztche and the like. They have never had to consider another's position that there "is no God" or that "there is a God, but he isn't concerned with your affairs." This isn't even specifically about Christianity, it's about faith. Then you have your historical revisionists that attempt to lob little things in their to cause you to questions your belief in Jesus Christ as well.
My beliefs in Christ were most certainly changed -- but all for the positive! It was hard not to have a different appearance after a 5 years at the University! When you wrestle, it's not always pretty.
Critical Thinking alone isn't enough for a professor that has more credibility in most student's eyes than a preacher, who has a pulpit to say what he wants, how he wants to say and has no need to build the student up -- they have succeeded if they can just tear them down. Let's not be naive. Too many of us have been there, done that and understand it's a battlefield in the classroom. Wisdom University, True-U, TruthProject are all responses to this problem.
If Pragmatist is the exception then SOMETHING IS WRONG and it's not with the University.
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
I believe it is speaking primarily to parents when it says to "train
up a child in the way it SHOULD go..." I certainly would not allow
just anyone to "train up my child".
Mine are already trained up, just as I was trained up.
Blessings,
Falla39
My point was, if anyone thinks they have trained up their children, sufficiently so they will "not depart from it", I can put them to the test!
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I'm in school right now. This isn't a past tense thing for me, in any way. I'm avoiding an assignment right this moment by checking in here. lol
I don't think it's college at fault. I left home and moved quite a lot of miles away. The freedom to think for myself existed, and I took it. I didn't really have a foundation, or rather, the foundation I had was found to be full of cracks and lies and inconsistencies and I just walked away from it all. I wasn't in college then. I was just a married woman with young children and a library card and internet access.
I think if Universities are a graveyard for Christians, Christianity is seriously lacking. Maybe the focus really should be on what's being missed and not on avoiding something that might make a person think and realize that they're coming up short changed. You'll never convince me that thinking is a bad thing. And you'll never convince me that God can't stand up to extraordinary questioning. If the beliefs these kids are taking into college are crumbling when they're faced with ideas (that they should have already been exposed to, IMO!) then something isn't adding up.
I've never proposed that thinking is a bad thing, nor that there's aren't answers to many of the things that have crippled Christian students. I'm currently in a Masters program, so I guess I'm a current student as well.
Your response to all of this is to ignore any danger with the philosophical bends that exist (as a reality) in these professors, and to point the finger of blame and families and churches. I agree that children need to learn to think critically, and be prepared for college in this manner, but it's only a preventative medicine, not a cure-all. Not everyone is like you or I. Not everyone has made it through. Prior to college, there were many literary works I had never been exposed to, many philosophies, many ideas, etc... Had I been exposed to all of these, what need would I have for college?
So you have a great point about preparation, but it's a tragedy if you use your point as a trump against the other issue: parents have every reason to pray for their children before entering college. "Be not conformed to this world, but be transferred by the renewing of your minds." This is all about ideas, thinking, etc... "Come out from among them and be separate" This is all about attitudes, beliefs, ideas, values, etc... Faith runs counter to Reason.... at least ultimately. That's not to say that faith is simply a magic bunny rabbit, rather, that's saying reason falls terribly short. Something is considered supernatural, because it has metaphysical qualities -- it's "above" the natural. Faith has a much larger perspective. When we approach God strictly with our mind only, abandoning our spirit, we are missing out on worshipping him with our "mind, body, soul and strength." This is hollistic.
If Pragmatist is the exception then SOMETHING IS WRONG and it's not with the University.
What sort of world are you living in that you don't think the University's imposition in the world of ideas if part of the problem? Can you be serious?
Please do research with your library card on the percentage of atheism in University faculty members. Then find out the percentage of deism. This is a battle of worldviews, and to think their preaching of their worldviews is not part of the problem is a grave error.
To a purist, education is objective information. Unfortunately, this isn't Utopia, and education is given from the mouths of many that have specific motives far from objective.
I've never proposed that thinking is a bad thing, nor that there's aren't answers to many of the things that have crippled Christian students. I'm currently in a Masters program, so I guess I'm a current student as well.
Your response to all of this is to ignore any danger with the philosophical bends that exist (as a reality) in these professors, and to point the finger of blame and families and churches.
No, I'm not ignoring anything. What is going to be taught at college is pretty openly available for parents to look at and know about before the kids get anywhere near college aged. I'm raising four children right now, I'm not ignoring the danger with the philosophical bends that exist. My kids have been, already, exposed to a lot of things that they will be exposed to in college. We've discussed it, from a young age (at age appropriate levels) and it won't be anything new when they get there. Of course, that means I'll be missing something else and that'll be a whollup of a surprise for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingPains
I agree that children need to learn to think critically, and be prepared for college in this manner, but it's only a preventative medicine, not a cure-all. Not everyone is like you or I. Not everyone has made it through. Prior to college, there were many literary works I had never been exposed to, many philosophies, many ideas, etc... Had I been exposed to all of these, what need would I have for college?
Had you been exposed to the idea that two people can read the exact same text and draw differing conclusions from it, would it have been as challenging for you when you were exposed to the new philosophies and ideas?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingPains
So you have a great point about preparation, but it's a tragedy if you use your point as a trump against the other issue: parents have every reason to pray for their children before entering college.
If you're taking that from anything I said you're seriously misreading me. Why would I ever tell parents not to pray for their children?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingPains
"Be not conformed to this world, but be transferred by the renewing of your minds." This is all about ideas, thinking, etc... "Come out from among them and be separate" This is all about attitudes, beliefs, ideas, values, etc... Faith runs counter to Reason.... at least ultimately. That's not to say that faith is simply a magic bunny rabbit, rather, that's saying reason falls terribly short. Something is considered supernatural, because it has metaphysical qualities -- it's "above" the natural. Faith has a much larger perspective. When we approach God strictly with our mind only, abandoning our spirit, we are missing out on worshipping him with our "mind, body, soul and strength." This is hollistic.
Writing a book, I'll stop...
__________________
You become free from who you have become, by becoming who you were meant to be. ~Mark from another forum I post on
God did it for us. Out of sheer generosity he put us in right standing with himself. A pure gift. He got us out of the mess we're in and restored us to where he always wanted us to be. And he did it by means of Jesus Christ. ~Romans 3:24 from The Message
My point was, if anyone thinks they have trained up their children, sufficiently so they will "not depart from it", I can put them to the test!
Timmy,
God gave children parents to train them up. Then when they become of age,
mature, then they have to choose to either live for God or not live for God.
It is much easier if the "training up, has been done in the fear and admoni-
tion of the LORD. It must begin early. Then it's up to God. Parents discipline
the small children. God disciplines adults. It has to do with the sure mercies
of David. We are all children of GOD, as our Father as Creator. God gave His
older (parents/children) the job of helping train up the younger. We share in
their upbringing, whether it be a good job or an insufficient job. He gave us
an instruction book with these children.
I know we think these "kids" are ours, but they belong to God. He allows man
to sow the seed that begets them, and woman to carry and give birth to them,
But they are HIS. He gives and He takes away. Blessed be the Name of the
LORD!
God gave children parents to train them up. Then when they become of age,
mature, then they have to choose to either live for God or not live for God.
It is much easier if the "training up, has been done in the fear and admoni-
tion of the LORD. It must begin early. Then it's up to God. Parents discipline
the small children. God disciplines adults. It has to do with the sure mercies
of David. We are all children of GOD, as our Father as Creator. God gave His
older (parents/children) the job of helping train up the younger. We share in
their upbringing, whether it be a good job or an insufficient job. He gave us
an instruction book with these children.
I know we think these "kids" are ours, but they belong to God. He allows man
to sow the seed that begets them, and woman to carry and give birth to them,
But they are HIS. He gives and He takes away. Blessed be the Name of the
LORD!
Blessings,
Falla39
Thanks.
So........ any takers?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And you'll never convince me that God can't stand up to extraordinary questioning. If the beliefs these kids are taking into college are crumbling when they're faced with ideas (that they should have already been exposed to, IMO!) then something isn't adding up.
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