I think that as long as you continue to use the verse without proper understanding of part of it then you never will understand all of it. I've seen no one that can answer how God or even Jesus was ever justified in the Spirit. You've not even offered speculation on how this could happen.
Explaining how God or Jesus was justified in the Spirit could change the whole meaning of that verse and possibly even make it no longer suitable for a prooftext that Jesus is God. The thing is, until we understand that whole verse then we cannot say how its meaning might change when we fully understand it.
I did offer what this means "justified in the Spirit", by pointing out first of all it means "declared righteous". I then pointed out it was by His works.
Second you've offered no logical reason why if we don't understand for sure what "justified in the Spirit" means we can't understand the rest, despite actually understanding it and explaining it
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I did offer what this means "justified in the Spirit", by pointing out first of all it means "declared righteous". I then pointed out it was by His works.
Second you've offered no logical reason why if we don't understand for sure what "justified in the Spirit" means we can't understand the rest, despite actually understanding it and explaining it
So you are saying that God was justified by his works?
__________________
You better watch out before I blitzkrieg your thread cause I'm the Thread Nazi now!
So you are saying that God was justified by his works?
Proven to be righteous, yes. His works are self evident
I have a quick question though, nobody has offered why this is a problem for God...one person brought it up and just kept saying how disagreeable it sounded to him, but never why.
So let me ask, if this was just about a man, what does it mean for that man to be justified in the Spirit?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Proven to be righteous, yes. His works are self evident
I have a quick question though, nobody has offered why this is a problem for God...one person brought it up and just kept saying how disagreeable it sounded to him, but never why.
So let me ask, if this was just about a man, what does it mean for that man to be justified in the Spirit?
I honestly don't know.
By the way, which works proved God to be righteous. Can you give me a few examples?
__________________
You better watch out before I blitzkrieg your thread cause I'm the Thread Nazi now!
By the way, which works proved God to be righteous. Can you give me a few examples?
I did. I pointed out He was obedient to God, even to the point of obeying all the way to the cross and dying
Peter says He was a man approved by God according to the signs and wonders he did.
Here is another
at 3:14 But John restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me? Mat 3:15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him. Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him. Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
oh 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things. Joh 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.
The bible says He was without spot Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot;
Joh 16:9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe on Me; Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miracles Jesus did in Cana of Galilee. And it revealed His glory. And His disciples believed on Him.
Joh 3:2 He came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles which you do unless God is with him.
One more note, this thought just occured to me but this could reflect the resurrection. Whereas they ridiculed him and his claims to being Messiah and that if he died he would rise again. In being raised from the grave He is vindicated that what he said is true. That even his works, the miraculous works attested to His being who and what he claimed to be
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I did. I pointed out He was obedient to God, even to the point of obeying all the way to the cross and dying
Peter says He was a man approved by God according to the signs and wonders he did.
Here is another
at 3:14 But John restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me? Mat 3:15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him. Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him. Mat 3:17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
oh 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things. Joh 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.
The bible says He was without spot Heb 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God) purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot;
Joh 16:9 Concerning sin, because they do not believe on Me; Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
Joh 2:11 This beginning of miracles Jesus did in Cana of Galilee. And it revealed His glory. And His disciples believed on Him.
Joh 3:2 He came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles which you do unless God is with him.
One more note, this thought just occured to me but this could reflect the resurrection. Whereas they ridiculed him and his claims to being Messiah and that if he died he would rise again. In being raised from the grave He is vindicated that what he said is true. That even his works, the miraculous works attested to His being who and what he claimed to be
That explanation sets the best with me.
__________________
You better watch out before I blitzkrieg your thread cause I'm the Thread Nazi now!
So let me ask, if this was just about a man, what does it mean for that man to be justified in the Spirit?
The issue is GODLINESS throughout 1 Timothy. Man is justified in Spirit so as to explain how we LIVE BY FAITH. The JUST (justified) shall live by faith, not by self effort of law-keeping, which is living by sight or by flesh. This is how godliness works. We cannot live a JUST LIFE without the grace of the Spirit. Grace is divine empowerment here. Paul is not teaching oneness in 1 Tim 3:16, though he implies oneness for sure. He is teaching how godliness is required and expected of God in our lives from the start of the epistle. Read every chapter and see how he leads up to the third one speaking of GODLINESS.
Even GOD manifest in the flesh HAD TO BE JUSTIFIED NOT BY THAT FLESH but by Spirit, as our example. It is a contrast between being justified by flesh or justified by Spirit.
Paul began the epistle stating that the LAW was intended to make us godly in lifestyle, but Paul found that only through grace were these things abundant. Cp. 1 Tim 1:5 with 1 Tim 1:14. Romans 8:3-4 shows how the law could not accomplish its purpose, but God did accomplish that purpose of law through Christ. In fact, Paul contrasted walking after the flesh to live a just life from walking after the Spirit in Romans 8! This is the point of 1 Tim 3:16. We walk after the Spirit to live godly lives and that is what being justified in the Spirit means.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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