Many confuse the initial evidence (receiving of the Giver) in Acts, with the gift of tongues in Corinthians. Same Spirit! The initial pouring out or receiving of the Spirit was at Pentecost. Those that have received the Spirit are now eligble for the gifts of the Spirit, as in Corinthians. You won't be receiving gifts of the Spirit until you have first received the SPIRIT! Paul was speaking to the church at Corinth! Teaching on the usage or regulating of the gifts in this church.
Falla39
the initial pouring out had firey tounges over there head, and people could understand what these people was saying. However today we dont know what they are saying. unless one interprets.
and if a interpretor is needed then it must be the gifts of the spirit.
in another part of the bible they also prophesied would one have to prophesy as well to show that they recieved spirit baptism. again the word charisma which is related to the gifts of the spirit, is the same word used in ephesians 2:8-9 the free Gift (charisma) of God is eternal life.
One must balance the bible.
I agree we need the Spirit, I do agree that tounges is a evidence of the Spirit but it it not the onlt one, we have isolated one gift of the Spirit and made it a mandatory experience.
we have people today who are self sacrificing for the Kingdom of God who never spoke in tounges, yet the evidence is the fruit they bear in labor for our precious Lord. Fruits galations 5:22
Many confuse the initial evidence (receiving of the Giver) in Acts, with the gift of tongues in Corinthians. Same Spirit! The initial pouring out or receiving of the Spirit was at Pentecost. Those that have received the Spirit are now eligble for the gifts of the Spirit, as in Corinthians. You won't be receiving gifts of the Spirit until you have first received the SPIRIT! Paul was speaking to the church at Corinth! Teaching on the usage or regulating of the gifts in this church.
Falla39
Most people confuse the tongues that occurred at the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost with the babel that goes on in most churches today. The tongues on Pentecost was not ecstatic utterances and stammered syllables that we hear most often today, it was ACTUAL human languages given at a time when many languages were gathered together so that the message could be HEARD and UNDERSTOOD in each listeners native language.
I do believe in the gift of unknown tongues, the tongue of men and angels and I do believe that it is a gift, but I do not believe that it is and I further find no BIBLICAL PROOF that it is essential to Salvation.
How can anyone repent unless the Spirit draw him? How can the Spirit draw him if He doesn't take up residence until after someone has "tarried" and begged to receive Him??
We need to take a look at what we teach, we need to Study to shew ourselves approved and quit preaching something just because its all we have ever been taught, We are APOSTOLIC, we need to get back to APOSTOLIC doctrine and leave the rest alone!!!
__________________
Apostolic is an understanding that God has finally and completely revealed Himself to all mankind through His incarnation as Jesus Christ. He has revealed to all a way of life, love and forgiveness that leads to a right relationship with Him and with each other.
~Repairing the Apostolic Church, Apostle W. Carey & Bishop N. Morales
Most people confuse the tongues that occurred at the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost with the babel that goes on in most churches today. The tongues on Pentecost was not ecstatic utterances and stammered syllables that we hear most often today, it was ACTUAL human languages given at a time when many languages were gathered together so that the message could be HEARD and UNDERSTOOD in each listeners native language.
I do believe in the gift of unknown tongues, the tongue of men and angels and I do believe that it is a gift, but I do not believe that it is and I further find no BIBLICAL PROOF that it is essential to Salvation.
How can anyone repent unless the Spirit draw him? How can the Spirit draw him if He doesn't take up residence until after someone has "tarried" and begged to receive Him??
We need to take a look at what we teach, we need to Study to shew ourselves approved and quit preaching something just because its all we have ever been taught, We are APOSTOLIC, we need to get back to APOSTOLIC doctrine and leave the rest alone!!!
It annoys me that you guys are so arrogant saying that the tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost are not what they speak now?
Even if the 120 in the upper room each spake in one known tongue each, that's on 120 different languages.
The invaluable Ethnologue quotes 6909 living languages. Keyword there is Living Tongues. That does not include ancient tongues and dialects that are dead, unknown, or unheard. You would have to have thousands of linguists at each receiving of the Holy Ghost to determine what that language is for that one persons speaking.
Who are you to question how God can work?
Back when Pentecost was first forming, they used to think they could just go to China and speak in tongues to preach. However that was not the way it works. I have had missionaries tell me that the have been in parts of the world where people have not even heard English. I mean at all. Bush countries. And when a person started to receive the Holy Ghost, they started to talk in plain, American English. Others at the same place, in Spanish. Etc. All at the same place. Different countries. Different Missionaries.
To tell me this does not happen here in America, just because you, or the person next to you can not understand what you are saying, that it must not be true, is complete arrogance.
We were given a narrative by the Apostle Luke on the workings, and actions of the First Church, not a Scientific Data Analyses of every encounter, language, and person that it happened to, throughout the first 100 years.
He wrote it like the following:
1) Story #1 with some details (narrative, story telling, with only Key Notes on message given)
2) Story #2, point back to what happened at what #1, same happened at #2 with different people
3) Story #3, less detail then #2, but same thing that happened at #1 (cause I already told you how it happens)
That is how the Book of Acts was written. For those of you that claim, well it does not specifically state that in such'n'such verse that they did that. It's because, he does not have to retail the story of Chapter 2, 30 different times.
If it happens, it happens JUST like Acts Chapter 2.
It annoys me that you guys are so arrogant saying that the tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost are not what they speak now?
Even if the 120 in the upper room each spake in one known tongue each, that's on 120 different languages.
The invaluable Ethnologue quotes 6909 living languages. Keyword there is Living Tongues. That does not include ancient tongues and dialects that are dead, unknown, or unheard. You would have to have thousands of linguists at each receiving of the Holy Ghost to determine what that language is for that one persons speaking.
Who are you to question how God can work?
Back when Pentecost was first forming, they used to think they could just go to China and speak in tongues to preach. However that was not the way it works. I have had missionaries tell me that the have been in parts of the world where people have not even heard English. I mean at all. Bush countries. And when a person started to receive the Holy Ghost, they started to talk in plain, American English. Others at the same place, in Spanish. Etc. All at the same place. Different countries. Different Missionaries.
To tell me this does not happen here in America, just because you, or the person next to you can not understand what you are saying, that it must not be true, is complete arrogance.
We were given a narrative by the Apostle Luke on the workings, and actions of the First Church, not a Scientific Data Analyses of every encounter, language, and person that it happened to, throughout the first 100 years.
He wrote it like the following:
1) Story #1 with some details (narrative, story telling, with only Key Notes on message given)
2) Story #2, point back to what happened at what #1, same happened at #2 with different people
3) Story #3, less detail then #2, but same thing that happened at #1 (cause I already told you how it happens)
That is how the Book of Acts was written. For those of you that claim, well it does not specifically state that in such'n'such verse that they did that. It's because, he does not have to retail the story of Chapter 2, 30 different times.
If it happens, it happens JUST like Acts Chapter 2.
First of all, I don't believe that my reply was one bit arrogant, I was simply stating fact. I didn't say that people today do not speak in natural languages, I just said that most of what we hear today is just gibberish.
I believe that people can be given an earthly or a heavenly language, what ever Father sees fit to give them. And I don't question how God chooses to move, God gives as He wills.
The comment about back when Pentecost was first forming? Pentecost is a Jewish feast, it has been a set festival since levitical times. Sorry maybe that statement was a bit arrogant, but I had to correct the misuse of Pentecost.
And I didn't one time say it doesn't happen in America, I speak, pray and sing in tongues on a daily basis and I don't have any idea what language I speak, I have been told I speak German, Russian and several other languages, I have no clue, it isn't to edify my flesh its for my spirit.
__________________
Apostolic is an understanding that God has finally and completely revealed Himself to all mankind through His incarnation as Jesus Christ. He has revealed to all a way of life, love and forgiveness that leads to a right relationship with Him and with each other.
~Repairing the Apostolic Church, Apostle W. Carey & Bishop N. Morales
I see both points of view here. The "gibberish" has a LOT to do with the type of experience people are now receiviing at the traditional "pentecostal altars" Before someone get wrapped around the axle over that statement ask yourself this question: How many times have you either been prayed for (or prayed for a seeker) during the altar call, held up their arms, whispered in there ear to "let go", spoke in tongues audibly in order to somehow influence the outcome. IT HAPPENS. And then when someone DOES stammer (sometimes out of sheer exhaustion) talk about a hoedown! I'm NOT talking about the genuine experience. I am talking about our "helping" people to receive something that GOD has already staked His (incarnate) life on. When the desire to have all of what GOD has promised is greater than the desire to go to church to GET that experience people WILL receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
I see both points of view here. The "gibberish" has a LOT to do with the type of experience people are now receiviing at the traditional "pentecostal altars" Before someone get wrapped around the axle over that statement ask yourself this question: How many times have you either been prayed for (or prayed for a seeker) during the altar call, held up their arms, whispered in there ear to "let go", spoke in tongues audibly in order to somehow influence the outcome. IT HAPPENS. And then when someone DOES stammer (sometimes out of sheer exhaustion) talk about a hoedown! I'm NOT talking about the genuine experience. I am talking about our "helping" people to receive something that GOD has already staked His (incarnate) life on. When the desire to have all of what GOD has promised is greater than the desire to go to church to GET that experience people WILL receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Amen. Those of us who believe tongues is initial evidence of Spirit baptism recognize there is a fleshly version many people employ, and we are against the "see-my-tie-come-tie-my-tie" coaching.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Amen. Those of us who believe tongues is initial evidence of Spirit baptism recognize there is a fleshly version many people employ, and we are against the "see-my-tie-come-tie-my-tie" coaching.
It annoys me that you guys are so arrogant saying that the tongues spoken on the day of Pentecost are not what they speak now?
Even if the 120 in the upper room each spake in one known tongue each, that's on 120 different languages.
The invaluable Ethnologue quotes 6909 living languages. Keyword there is Living Tongues. That does not include ancient tongues and dialects that are dead, unknown, or unheard. You would have to have thousands of linguists at each receiving of the Holy Ghost to determine what that language is for that one persons speaking.
Who are you to question how God can work?
Back when Pentecost was first forming, they used to think they could just go to China and speak in tongues to preach. However that was not the way it works. I have had missionaries tell me that the have been in parts of the world where people have not even heard English. I mean at all. Bush countries. And when a person started to receive the Holy Ghost, they started to talk in plain, American English. Others at the same place, in Spanish. Etc. All at the same place. Different countries. Different Missionaries.
To tell me this does not happen here in America, just because you, or the person next to you can not understand what you are saying, that it must not be true, is complete arrogance.
We were given a narrative by the Apostle Luke on the workings, and actions of the First Church, not a Scientific Data Analyses of every encounter, language, and person that it happened to, throughout the first 100 years.
He wrote it like the following:
1) Story #1 with some details (narrative, story telling, with only Key Notes on message given)
2) Story #2, point back to what happened at what #1, same happened at #2 with different people
3) Story #3, less detail then #2, but same thing that happened at #1 (cause I already told you how it happens)
That is how the Book of Acts was written. For those of you that claim, well it does not specifically state that in such'n'such verse that they did that. It's because, he does not have to retail the story of Chapter 2, 30 different times.
If it happens, it happens JUST like Acts Chapter 2.
Got any videos?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Can some apostolics be living by the letter of acts 2:38, but not the spirit of the NT? Can some christians who have not obeyed acts 2:38, yet live just, righteous or holy lives? (including baptists who haven't spoken in tongues)
Define "Letter of" and "Spirit of" and give us the methodology for figuring out what the Spirit of the NT is...that seems rather subjective to me.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Define "Letter of" and "Spirit of" and give us the methodology for figuring out what the Spirit of the NT is...that seems rather subjective to me.
I was just ruminating on my own life. I have followed acts 2:38, but I don't currently follow any holiness standards. While my bil, who is trinitarian pentecostal, hasn't followed acts 2:38, but lives an apparent life of holiness. Just using aff as a diary of thoughts.
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