The Second Coming of Christ

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hey, k, good to see someone not flip out since a tradition was lamb-basted. Lol

Yes, and you'll notice no one else has posted an opinion...

[Aquila]

I’m seeing a growing trend towards Christoplatonism. I first discovered this term in one of Randy Alcorn’s books. The term is used to denote the combination of Christian thought and Platonic thought. Plato believed that all physical matter was “evil” or “bad”. Platonists (followers of Platonic thought) believe that when someone dies their “spirit” leaves their body to enter a place that is absolutely non-physical in nature and appearance. In death people are “wispy mists” that proceed into the “light” where existence is nothing like our earthly existence and is virtually indescribable. Christoplatonists take these ideas and incorporate them into Christianity. The notion of a “physical resurrection” is rejected and the idea that “Heaven” or the “Eternal State” will be physical in nature (though glorified) or appearance is also rejected. Therefore they reject a physical resurrection, a real and tangible New Earth with an actual city called New Jerusalem, and an existence that is perceivable as life is today, although glorified and eternal. Since they believe this they “spiritualize” texts of the Bible wherein these things are taught. It’s the blending of pagan Greek thought and Christian concepts.

The Bible and ancient Hebrew thought is quite different. In the Bible God is the “God of the living”. God is a God who created all physical matter “good” and it is His original intent to have this physical creation exist forever in a glorified and sinless state (see the original creation as a prototype). The Bible speaks of Jesus as the “firstborn” of all creation in that He is physically arisen from the dead glorified and eternal. It is God’s desire to conform all men into the image of Jesus Christ; this implies that we too will one day be physically raised from the dead. We shall be like Him! Paul states that this will happen in the “twinkling of an eye” wherein we all shall be changed (glorified as Christ Jesus was), the dead in Christ rise from their graves, and we who are alive and remain are caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord...and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The Bible speaks of this current creation (sinful and fallen) as passing away and a New Heavens and a New Earth being created (a glorified and sinless creation); a creation with all the beauty and pleasures that God originally introduced in Eden. A creation with rolling seas, majestic snow capped mountains, crystal clear lakes, pure white sandy beaches, vast forests and deserts, teaming cities, nations of people, languages, cultures, art, holy science, love, worship, rewarding and refreshing work, elegant foods, music, dancing, animals, economy, praise, laughter, exploration, libraries holding sacred and unknown ages of history, freedom, and leisure unsurpassed. Some, perhaps the great ones in our world, will find the pleasures of serving. Others, perhaps the lowly of our world, will find the pleasures of governing. Many will find their callings as kings governing the nations and others will find their callings as priests of the resurrected Lord. Those who never attained their callings will find said callings realized in this eternal state of glory. Every dream will come true. People don’t realize the beauty of God’s true intentions for our future and so we run a race unable to conceive of the prize we are trying to win. We begin to focus on this life, its pleasures, and its blessings and forget that God has a world so much greater in store for all of His elect. It will be an unending golden and heavenly renaissance. It will be in one word…GLORIOUS.

So yes... I believe in an actual and physical RESURRECTION when Christ returns. It will be part of my eternal reward.

Heaven - Don’t you want to go?

Even so, come Lord Jesus! Maranatha!!!

[Aquila]

For it is written:

Revelation 21:1-27 (KJV)
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Also...

Isaiah 65:17-25
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 66:22-23
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 11:9
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Luke 19:12-19
12He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

The implications of the above texts, especially the highlighted, are mind blowing.

[Aquila]

None of the joys God has promised His people can be experienced if there isn't a bodily resurrection in glorified bodies. And Paul explains plainly that we all shall experience this at once (including those who have passed on before us):

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Be ye comforted, all of you who are God's children.

[Aquila]

What will eternity hold for you beloved?

rolling seas
majestic snow capped mountains
crystal clear lakes
pure white sandy beaches
vast forests and deserts
teaming cities
nations of people
languages
cultures
art
holy science
love
worship
rewarding and refreshing work
elegant foods
fine wine
music
dancing
animals
economy
praise
laughter
exploration
libraries holding sacred and unknown ages of history
freedom
leisure unsurpassed

All in a New Earth governed by Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, from the New Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 2:9-10
9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

We need not debate over our bodily resurrection and it's timing with relation to the Second Coming. We need a REVELATION about Heaven and Eternity, once we have this the truth falls perfectly into place. Give God praise and glory!!!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Aquila

We need not debate over our bodily resurrection and it's timing with relation to the Second Coming. We need a REVELATION about Heaven and Eternity, once we have this the truth falls perfectly into place. Give God praise and glory!!!

Aquila, thank you for sharing these scriptures, and thoughts with us! I pray God begins to illuminate this truth more, and more for his saints. What a hope we have in Christ!!!!!

I agree that REVELATION is needed for all those people who think their "mansion in heaven" is somewhere in outer space somewhere. The heavens are the Lord's, but the earth is for man.

Psalms 115:16 "The heaven, even the heavens are the Lord's, but the earth hath he given to the children of men."

Looking forward to the day when we will be changed with immortal bodies!!!!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Aquila, thank you for sharing these scriptures, and thoughts with us! I pray God begins to illuminate this truth more, and more for his saints. What a hope we have in Christ!!!!!

I agree that REVELATION is needed for all those people who think their "mansion in heaven" is somewhere in outer space somewhere. The heavens are the Lord's, but the earth is for man.

Psalms 115:16 "The heaven, even the heavens are the Lord's, but the earth hath he given to the children of men."

Looking forward to the day when we will be changed with immortal bodies!!!!

Amen.

There is a lot about Heaven that we don't talk about or explore in Scripture. I wish we asked more questions about the eternal state than standards.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen.

There is a lot about Heaven that we don't talk about or explore in Scripture. I wish we asked more questions about the eternal state than standards.

I agree.

[mfblume]

I am far more interested in learning how to manifest His will in my life NOW, and to be led more by His Spirit and manifest Himself through my life. The bible says extremely LITTLE about heaven, because the focus ought to be more on what we can do to manifest His will and bring His kingdom here in earth as it is in heaven right now.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Here's something I've heard recently. I don't know if it is splitting hairs or not.

But I think I agree with both BByrd009 and Bro. Blume.

I think what BB (shortened version of your name, if you don't mind... ) is trying to say that is Christ going to be manifested fully, and completely in each believers life at some point in time when God decides enough is enough, and the trumpet sounds. Then our physical bodies will be changed "in a twinkling of an eye" but instead of going somewhere supernatural... meaning outside of our present world... could it be... and this is my big question... could it be that we are changed from our physical bodies here to a spiritual body like Christ's, and be part of a changed immortal church group of people here on the new earth that God says he will be creating? I don't know. Nor does anyone really know for sure. But just a thought.

If we can believe that we will be changed, and taken out of this world, a big concept to grasp, why is it so unbelievable that it is also possible that we be supernaturally changed to stay here, in the new earth God will be creating... ????

The OT writings seem to point to the natural earth being recreated where the wolf will once again lay down with the lamb....

Isaiah 65:17-25 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever [in that] which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. 20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree [are] the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they [are] the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust [shall be] the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

Sounds like a natural earth recreated to me, and perhaps our immortal spiritual bodies will dwell in this new earth.

I believe Revelation speaks of this also.

I am wondering if BB and Blume's thoughts could somehow both be right?

I just really read this, and think you are nailing it, imo. I might change "when God decides enough is enough," as I don't find anything in Scripture that prevents us from "the kingdom of Heaven beside you," or "life, more abundantly" except ourselves, but hey, that's me.