Responding to a Trinitarian

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have not found this to be true in my experience. Even now there are thousands of so called "Apologetics" sites on the net that condemn Oneness doctrine. People have been literally killed because they would not accept the Trinity.

It is not a quibble over words. Jesus taught he was our Father come as a man. Trins will never agree to that.

The trinitarian doctrine does not fully believe that in Christ dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily. They believe He is deity, but in their description of Him, He is a lesser deity than the Father, and not fully God. Makes a big difference, doesn't it.

I experienced this myself among the so-called tolerant trinitarians. They called Oneness heretical and declared us lost. For such tolerant people, they sure are intolerant.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Monarchianism

So, I have tried to provide an explanation for the Oneness belief to a Trinitarian. He tries to give one for his using three different forms of water, which He said 1.) Ice. 2.) Water. 3.) Air. He tried another one.. where he said to "pretend you are an alien holding a device" and can transform into three things. < Lol. His thoughts being "One alien, three persons." The third, he used his body as an example. He put his hand infront of his face and said "my eyes are are going to tell my hand to move." His hand moves. < He says that's two different things acting but it's still him. ( Like two persons acting but in one essence ). Then he said "my stomach digests food" but I can't tell my stomach to stop doing that. < His thoughts are "part of him is acting that he has no control over" but it is himself. As in, Jesus acts separate from the Father, but is God.

What would you respond with?

All his examples except maybe the last ones where he begins talking about parts of himself and calling them himself are examples of triunity and triunity is a concept that both oneness and trinitarians share in common. It's the particulars of that triunity (persons or modes) that makes the difference.

I'm not sure how I would respond to someone referring to part of a person as that person. While its true that I digest food and that my stomach digests food it is not logically correct to then claim that this implies my stomach is me or that I am my stomach.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

The trinitarian doctrine does not fully believe that in Christ dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily. They believe He is deity, but in their description of Him, He is a lesser deity than the Father, and not fully God. Makes a big difference, doesn't it.

I experienced this myself among the so-called tolerant trinitarians. They called Oneness heretical and declared us lost. For such tolerant people, they sure are intolerant.

I believe the trinitarian claim is co-equality?

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I believe the trinitarian claim is co-equality?

The "claim" is equality, but the fact is that they hold Jesus as a lesser deity. Take the time to read all they say about Jesus, and how they speak openly how Jesus is not the Father. In other words, with their lips they speak equality, but the totality of their doctrine is far from it.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

The "claim" is equality, but the fact is that they hold Jesus as a lesser deity. Take the time to read all they say about Jesus, and how they speak openly how Jesus is not the Father. In other words, with their lips they speak equality, but the totality of their doctrine is far from it.

While I'm all for getting to the bottom of what people believe I think most the time people don't really listen to what the other side is saying. Are you sure that's not what you are doing?

[JamDat]

Don't let yourself be fooled. Trinitarian theology is on the up rise. I suggest you get your theology in order to properly witness the gospel and defend the bible.

As far as the trinitarian model of god being co-equal I feel that it's a joke when you really think about it. How when their christ suffered the wrath of the their father were either of them co-equal? Did the father share in the pain? Did the son share in the pleasure? So much for being co-equal.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by JamDat

Don't let yourself be fooled. Trinitarian theology is on the up rise. I suggest you get your theology in order to properly witness the gospel and defend the bible.

As far as the trinitarian model of god being co-equal I feel that it's a joke when you really think about it. How when their christ suffered the wrath of the their father were either of them co-equal? Did the father share in the pain? Did the son share in the pleasure? So much for being co-equal.

I guess as everything it depends on how you define equality

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by JamDat

Don't let yourself be fooled. Trinitarian theology is on the up rise. I suggest you get your theology in order to properly witness the gospel and defend the bible.

As far as the trinitarian model of god being co-equal I feel that it's a joke when you really think about it. How when their christ suffered the wrath of the their father were either of them co-equal? Did the father share in the pain? Did the son share in the pleasure? So much for being co-equal.

Since what you said did not make a lick of sense to me, could you expand it a little please? Trinitarian theology has been the majority since 325 AD... what is on 'the uprise'?

I didn't get the rest of what you said either... can you rephrase maybe?

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

The trinitarian doctrine does not fully believe that in Christ dwells ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily. They believe He is deity, but in their description of Him, He is a lesser deity than the Father, and not fully God. Makes a big difference, doesn't it.

I experienced this myself among the so-called tolerant trinitarians. They called Oneness heretical and declared us lost. For such tolerant people, they sure are intolerant.

Well... since there are probably as many views of trinity as there are trinnies and as many views of oneness as there are OPs (or at least that is my experience) I can't completely disagree with you except to say that for you to boldly state what a group of people believe is kind of amazing.

I am a very strict monotheist, possibly a modalist and I am willing to bet (if I were the betting type) that you could not voice my theology accurately. If you tried I would be able to find areas where I was not in agreement... I know this because some have tried and they never get it right from either camp... So I am 100% certain that you have not given a good explanation of what trinitarians believe.

And not you personally really... but everyone who tries to read another person's thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

[Titus2woman]

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Wanna explain to me what you disagree with?