Charismatic

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't think anyone is questioning whether there was a story or not but is it possible that over time the details have become skewed. I mean it is just over the top that a bunch of people are in a bar speaking in tongues while drinking margaritas. I am betting your recollection is not perfectly clear or you misunderstood it at the time. Sadly I know that sometimes hard core Pentecostals read more into things than are really there sometimes in their zeal.

I might be 'old', CC1, but I'm not senile....not yet!

Of course I don't remember the article word for word, but I do know the gist of it. And it has stuck with me, all these years later. I had never heard of anything like it before. In fact, I don't think I had even heard the word charismatic before.

If I remember correctly, this was a group of Catholics. Not real sure about that, though. And remember...this was in the early seventies....maybe late sixties.

I never thought of myself as being 'hard core' Pentecostal....but maybe I am! lol

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I might be 'old', CC1, but I'm not senile....not yet!

Of course I don't remember the article word for word, but I do know the gist of it. And it has stuck with me, all these years later. I had never heard of anything like it before. In fact, I don't think I had even heard the word charismatic before.

If I remember correctly, this was a group of Catholics. Not real sure about that, though. And remember...this was in the early seventies....maybe late sixties.

I never thought of myself as being 'hard core' Pentecostal....but maybe I am! lol

It seems as if your recall is indeed a little fuzzy (maybe Catholics) but my comment was to the content of the story which I find pure inflammatory hyperbole if it contained what you say it contained. Sounds like somebody had an agenda to smear Charismatics.

For one thing how would they know if this happened? Not exactly something that would have made the nightly news... you would have had to have been there. I guess my disgust meter just sproings it's springs every time I hear something like this because over the years I have heard so many OP preachers, evangelists, and writers tell blatant lies right over the pulpit and even in writing and nobody ever calls them on it... makes me sick and angry... Like do they really think that God is so lame that He needs their 'help' with embellished stories???.

[trialedbyfire]

I've been involved in alot of Full Gospel meetings and have many friends in the FG movement. Most of them came out of the original charismatic movement and formed individual churches. There's a wide variety of Charismatic Churches, it's a huge umbrella term that encompasses just about every group that speaks in tongues outside of traditional classical pentecostalism (AOG, UPC, PAW, COGIC, COG, etc). This includes the Hinn folks the Word/Faith folks, and the Full Gospel Baptist churches. In the Full Gospel movement there are strict calls for Holiness. If you look up Full Gospel Holy Temple their standards are alot stricter then some UPC churches. But most charismatic circles are very anti-standards. I don't consider liberal Apostolics "charismatic"...

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I've been involved in alot of Full Gospel meetings and have many friends in the FG movement. Most of them came out of the original charismatic movement and formed individual churches. There's a wide variety of Charismatic Churches, it's a huge umbrella term that encompasses just about every group that speaks in tongues outside of traditional classical pentecostalism (AOG, UPC, PAW, COGIC, COG, etc). This includes the Hinn folks the Word/Faith folks, and the Full Gospel Baptist churches. In the Full Gospel movement there are strict calls for Holiness. If you look up Full Gospel Holy Temple their standards are alot stricter then some UPC churches. But most charismatic circles are very anti-standards. I don't consider liberal Apostolics "charismatic"...

Have you ever had any association with the Full Gospel Evangelistic Association?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

It seems as if your recall is indeed a little fuzzy (maybe Catholics) but my comment was to the content of the story which I find pure inflammatory hyperbole if it contained what you say it contained. Sounds like somebody had an agenda to smear Charismatics.

For one thing how would they know if this happened? Not exactly something that would have made the nightly news... you would have had to have been there. I guess my disgust meter just sproings it's springs every time I hear something like this because over the years I have heard so many OP preachers, evangelists, and writers tell blatant lies right over the pulpit and even in writing and nobody ever calls them on it... makes me sick and angry... Like do they really think that God is so lame that He needs their 'help' with embellished stories???.

100% agree here, Titus woman! The anecdotal stories that swirl around the "charismatics" are somewhat varied, but almost always contain those elements of "greasy grace, anything goes, don't believe fat meat's greasy" blah blah blah, and this is just another variation of it. Why in the world would a newspaper even concern itself with people sitting around drinking, smoking and speaking in tongues??????? And, if they were, so what? To say that all Charismatics drink and smoke is like saying all hard core pastors are having affairs. Does that mean that every single hard core conservative pastor is having an affair? I mean, really, I know several who have, but does that mean that they all are?

Tired of the broad brush theatrics, on both sides...........

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Have you ever had any association with the Full Gospel Evangelistic Association?

I received the Holy Ghost at a revival run by an Apostolic minister at a Full Gospel Church. At one time I believe that church had fellowship with some churches in that group. I believe most of their churches (Full Gospel Evangelistic Association) are out west in Texas and the plains states am I correct? Generally I'm an East coast kid, never really been west of Texas. I have heard of them though.

[Michael The Disciple]

Full Gospel Churches are generally different than Charismatic Churches. I was ordained in the East Dayton Full Gospel Fellowship in 1980.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

It seems as if your recall is indeed a little fuzzy (maybe Catholics) but my comment was to the content of the story which I find pure inflammatory hyperbole if it contained what you say it contained. Sounds like somebody had an agenda to smear Charismatics.

For one thing how would they know if this happened? Not exactly something that would have made the nightly news... you would have had to have been there. I guess my disgust meter just sproings it's springs every time I hear something like this because over the years I have heard so many OP preachers, evangelists, and writers tell blatant lies right over the pulpit and even in writing and nobody ever calls them on it... makes me sick and angry... Like do they really think that God is so lame that He needs their 'help' with embellished stories???.

T2W, I never said it anything like made the nightly news. This article was in the inner paper. Something like the 'Living' is now. And it was NOT an imflammatory hyperbole type article. I don't recall it appearing to be that someone had an agenda to smear Charismatics. It was something new back then, and I suppose the word got out, and the newspaper sent a reporter to cover the story.

I can see how you, and others, would be offended at something like this. I was incredulous myself when I read it, with my mouth open! And if there was any embellishment going on, it was the reporter, not some OP preacher, evangelist or writer.

I have to say this bothers me...to think that the people on this Apostolic forum would doubt me when I say what my first recollections of 'Charismatics' was. And that's all it is. Not trying to smear, or make light of anyone.

God bless you today....

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

100% agree here, Titus woman! The anecdotal stories that swirl around the "charismatics" are somewhat varied, but almost always contain those elements of "greasy grace, anything goes, don't believe fat meat's greasy" blah blah blah, and this is just another variation of it. Why in the world would a newspaper even concern itself with people sitting around drinking, smoking and speaking in tongues??????? And, if they were, so what? To say that all Charismatics drink and smoke is like saying all hard core pastors are having affairs. Does that mean that every single hard core conservative pastor is having an affair? I mean, really, I know several who have, but does that mean that they all are?

Tired of the broad brush theatrics, on both sides...........

I suppose it was just that it was something new back then, Michael. You just didn't hear of people speaking in tongues, unless you were some type of Pentecostal. I've learned that there were many people who did..they just stayed in the closet...lol!

An interesting thing to consider. Our people had not started (and I'm using CC1's phraze here) 'going charismatic' back then. What I call the good ole days! Please don't be offended at that...just my sincere feelings...

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Sarah

T2W, I never said it anything like made the nightly news. This article was in the inner paper. Something like the 'Living' is now. And it was NOT an imflammatory hyperbole type article. I don't recall it appearing to be that someone had an agenda to smear Charismatics. It was something new back then, and I suppose the word got out, and the newspaper sent a reporter to cover the story.

I can see how you, and others, would be offended at something like this. I was incredulous myself when I read it, with my mouth open! And if there was any embellishment going on, it was the reporter, not some OP preacher, evangelist or writer.

I have to say this bothers me...to think that the people on this Apostolic forum would doubt me when I say what my first recollections of 'Charismatics' was. And that's all it is. Not trying to smear, or make light of anyone.

God bless you today....

I never said I doubted you... I said your recall was fuzzy. I am a woman in her fifth decade, my own recall is fuzzy. It happens. Where I have my doubts is in the original story. And when I say this please realize that I've lived long enough to have seen some weird, strange, unusual things happen. But I'm trying to put this together... Guys are getting drunk in a bar and are babbling... not something that would get noticed in the average bar (if you've never been one to hang out in bars, take my word for it)... but for the sake of argument let's say it did get noticed.... So then someone has to ask 'Hey, what are you babbling about?'... and one of them has to reply... 'We are speaking in tongues'... To which the average bartender or bar patron is going to have to ask 'what the heck is that?' (again just take my word)... That is going to require an explanation of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the gift of tongues... Now this other person who is listening to the story has to suddenly see that something strange is going on here... and this is where I kind of begin to lose it... because to people in bars drinking and smoking are just part of life... they talk about their kids while they drink and smoke... about their jobs and lives and even God... it just does not mean to them what it means to your average church goer that they are drinking and smoking... especially back then when commercials for alcohol and tobacco were all over TV and magazines and drinking and smoking were something that respectable average people did openly all the time...I mean when I delivered my first child my hospital room had an ashtray in it so me and my visitors could smoke... and they severed wine at the couples dinner they had to celebrate the birth of our first baby! But back to our guy who finds this a big deal...he also has to know someone from the local paper... and he has to call that person and they have decided that this is a newsworthy story and send a reporter... who has to arrive before the drinking people are too drunk to explain their religious affiliation and what it mean to be Charismatic and be able to give enough of an explanation for the reporter to write a story about it at a time in history where the term had just recently been coined and did not come with any preconceived notions to the average person

Yes I am totally doubting that chain of events. And the fact that you are so persistent in defending what you read, to the point that you are willing to say that it was not written by a writer with an agenda, is having the effect of causing me a tiny niggle of doubt about your own objectivity and/or recall. How and when you first heard the term Charismatic is of no consequence to me at all... It is the story you relayed and how bogus it seemed that made me reply, period.

I guess the real difference here is that if I'd read that story way back... by today I'd have realized that it was 99% likely to have been untrue and would not have mentioned it... So I guess I'm just trying to be sure... you do realize that this story is in all likelihood... pure fiction?

God bless you too sister.