BG And The HGB

[Barb]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

And that is a very good question. Why aren't we?

As I drove along a well-traveled city street today, I looked to my left and saw a Methodist food pantry parking lot all covered up with vehicles. It wasn't even opened yet and people were lined up waiting at the door.

I see Catholic, Baptist, Methodist etc charities and food pantries...but I see NO Oneness Pentecostal outreach ministries in this region.

There is such a need and OPs have such a great opportunity to teach gospel of Christ and give to them with love, the things they need.

The Apostolic church I attended for 24 years has a clothing and food pantry spanning many, many years.

The church I attend now also has a thriving clothing and food pantry.

OPs giving and ministering...who woulda thought?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Barb

The Apostolic church I attended for 24 years has a clothing and food pantry spanning many, many years.

The church I attend now also has a thriving clothing and food pantry.

OPs giving and ministering...who woulda thought?

Good. I remember years ago when my father-in-law was driving a Sunday School Bus and a woman and her children came to church. They were very poor. The woman was wearing men's shirts. They needed food and clothing. My father-in-law talked to some of the men in the Men's Sunday School class (all men 36 and up were in that class). He got responses like "This ain't the Salvation Army" and "God will provide for them if they get saved and do right" etc. That really bothered him.

In Galatians chapters 1 and 2 where Paul defends his ministry and message and talks about interacting with the Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem he assures his readers that what he preached agreed with the HQ church. He also mentioned that the HQ church stressed that he "remember the poor" which he said he did in his ministry.

[KeptByTheWord]

Did Billy Graham ever speak in tongues? Just wondering... Because a lot of Baptists have been filled with the spirit.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Did Billy Graham ever speak in tongues? Just wondering... Because a lot of Baptists have been filled with the spirit.

Seems to me that several years ago I read a quote by Billy Graham that said that he had never spoken with tongues but some of his friends/associates/etc had but I have never been able to find that quote.

[Jay]

To the best of my knowledge, Billy Graham has never spoken in tongues. He has never felt that it was ever actually necessary in any regard. He was never as adamantly opposed to it as others of his generation were.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Jay

To the best of my knowledge, Billy Graham has never spoken in tongues. He has never felt that it was ever actually necessary in any regard. He was never as adamantly opposed to it as others of his generation were.

Speaking in tongues is not a condition for salvation.

Hey, this should open a can with worms....

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Sam

I've listened to this before and again today. To me it appears that what Billy Graham is saying is the same thing I was taught at the Apostolic Bible Institute back in 1956/1957. This is some times called "The Light Doctrine" and some times called "Three classes in Heaven." It was taught by Ken Haney's father at the Bible college in Stockton, by Bro. Norris at ABI, by F.E. Curts (Ohio Dist. Supt. and Bible Teacher), and by Bishop G.T. Haywood.

As presented by these men those who have called out or reached out to God in their hearts but have not heard, or maybe heard but not understood the Gospel sufficiently to accept or reject it, will be among all those raised at the second resurrection (Revelation 20:5-15; Matthew 25:31-46)

This is what G.T. Haywood said about the second resurrection:

The Second Resurrection.
According to the inspired word of God the resurrection of the
"blessed and Holy" is completed a thousand years before the second
resurrection. It is from this point that we are obliged to note the
difference between partakers of the two resurrections.

After the thousand years expire "the rest of the dead" (those who
did not come forth in the first resurrection) both righteous and
wicked, live again and are made to stand before God. It is then that
Jesus separates them as a shepherd divideth the sheep from the goat
according to Matt. 25:31-46.

In this resurrection is included all the righteous men of all
ages who walked in all the light that they were given. It is my candid
opinion that all heathen, Israelites, Christian professors who have
never heard the true gospel of Christ and those who die during
the millennium, walking in the light of their times will be given
eternal life at the last resurrection.

Many righteous people have died without the Holy Ghost and
the question has been asked: "Where will they come in?" They shall be
given eternal life in the last day. They shall inherit the New
Earth where life eternal reigns because "there shall be no more death.
If we desire to take part in the first resurrection we must be
filled with the same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. It
is the church of the First-born that takes part in the first
resurrection. To enter into that Church, which is his body, we must be
baptized into it by both water and the Spirit. (See John 3:5; Rom.
6:3-5; 1 Cor. 12:12, 13; Gal. 3:26-28.

The time for the first resurrection is at hand. Are you
preparing to meet the Bridegroom? You must get oil within your vessels
and have your lamps trimmed and burning. Soon shall we hear the
midnight cry - "BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH."
------------------


Bro. S.G. Norris taught what is some times called "holy, righteous, and wicked." The "holy" are those who have obeyed Acts 2:38 since Pentecost; plus the Old Testament prophets who had the Holy Spirit in their lives; plus the children of at least one parent who had obeyed Acts 2:38 according to 1 Corinthians 7:14; plus those who were martyred in the tribulation. These were all in the first resurrection. Then, at the second resurrection, all who had walked in all the light they had received eternal life at the Great White Throne judgment (second resurrection) and went into the new earth.
---------------------------------

A while back I read a book titled "Prophetic Research, The Study of Eschatology" by Clyde Haney. Actually Than Haney (Clyde's grandson and Ken's son) published the book from Clyde Haney's notes. On pages 53 and 54 in his comments on The Great White Throne Judgment of Rev. 20:11-14
“The dead, small and great’ --while there are no born again folks raised here, yet we doubt that all all who are raised are cast into hell. Here is the answer to the question asked by many, “What will God do about those who did not have the gospel, but walked in all the light they had?”...some who come up for judgment here will not be cast into the lake of fire....It is evident that these resurrection Scriptures refer not to the Rapture, but the final resurrection; also that the two orders, just and unjust, come up when all in the graves are summoned. Thus the White Throne Judgment will be a great event covering a longer period of time than generally realized. But while the just will be judged, the church, the Holy Order, will not be judged there. The Bible teaches three orders -- the just, the righteous, and the holy. The Bride is the Holy Order. Then cometh the end....
-----------------------

So, what Billy Graham was saying on the tv program is what has been taught in UPC Bible Schools and what is believed by many OP teachers and preachers.

So there goes all that "All trinitarians are going to hell" and "If they got baptized any way but in the name of Jeezzsus... all they got was WET!" preaching by the UPC, right down the drain... Whoosh (that was the flush).

Now how do we get them to stop saying it over pentecostal pulpits everywhere?

The thing I find most disconcerting about the org is that they do not even agree with themselves.

[Dordrecht]

The Glass Cathedral is "out of business" , isn't it??
If that's the case it should tell you something.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Speaking in tongues is not a condition for salvation.

Hey, this should open a can with worms....

I am not going to open that can. Another will do so for me. However, I have not and will not change my position on this topic.

[Sam]

This is from pages 54-60 of the May 2007 issue of Charisma Magazine. I thought it was interesting because it tells us about a member of the Billy Graham family that we never hear anything about. I think it’s also interesting to hear how the Holy Spirit has worked in his life and the changes that have been made.

Surprised by the Spirit
By Sandra Chambers

Ned Graham, the youngest son of evangelist Billy Graham, discovered a new direction for his ministry when he was filled with the Holy Spirit’s power.

Hues of yellow, orange and red cast a soft blanket of color across the mountaintops behind the log home where Nelson Edman "Ned" Graham grew up as the youngest child of the Rev. Billy and Ruth Graham. Having returned to the family home in Montreat, North Carolina, where he makes periodic visits to oversee the care of his aging parents, Ned has many happy childhood memories of growing up on this mountain.

"I'm definitely at home in the mountains," he admits. "There's a perspective of depth and contrast the mountains offer, as well as a sense of permanence and beauty."

And like the mountains he loves, Ned has been marked by a few deep crevices and dark hollows. Emotional and spiritual forces shaped them, but through God's mercy and deliverance he has escaped their lingering shadows of despair, depression, addiction and demonic oppression. He has emerged with a new understanding of the Holy Spirit and God's love. Being the youngest of his four siblings by six years, Ned says that in some ways he was like an only child.

“Because my brothers and sisters were all older and my sisters got married at an early age, I got to spend more one-on-one time with my parents,” he says. “Growing up, my dad and I always had a very special bond. Dad always hugged me and told me he loved me no matter what. Even when I felt like a failure, he told me how proud he was of me.”

Ned says one of his fondest memories of early childhood was going back to his father’s bedroom, knocking on the door and peeking in to find him on the telephone with some important person, such as the president.

“He’d say, ‘Just a moment, Lyndon,’ put the phone on his chest, and then motion for me to come in,” Ned recalls. ”To me, that said I was more important than the president of the United States! I’d crawl up on his bed, content just to lie there with my head on his chest.”

“Ned will never admit it, but he’s my mother’s favorite child,” insists Anne Graham Lotz, one of Ned’s three sisters. “Mother just doted on him. He was the center of her life --after Daddy, of course-- and I think it’s God’s blessing that Ned would be the one to come back and look after them.”

Ned and Anne both say that when they were growing up there was no sibling rivalry among the five Graham children --Virginia “Gigi” Graham Tchividjian, 61, author and speaker; Anne Graham Lotz, 58, founder of AnGeL Ministries; Ruth “Bunny” Graham McIntyre, 56, author and speaker; William Franklin Graham III, 54, president and CEO of both the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and Samaritan’s Purse; and Ned, 49, president of East Gates International.

Like his brother, Franklin, Ned suffered through tumultuous teen years, displaying his rebellion through a love for fast cars, drinking and girls. But unlike Franklin, who abandoned his rebellion early, Ned struggled for 30 years with his before he came face to face with the issues that had contributed to it.

Darkness Invades
“When I was a little boy, I had a very pure, unadulterated relationship with God,” Ned says. “But when I was 11 and 12 years old, I experienced two childhood sexual-abuse traumas that opened the door for demonic affliction.”

He suspected in his mid-20’s that he was demonically afflicted, but he chose not to deal with it because he didn’t know enough about it. He was also too ashamed to bring it to the attention of anyone in the evangelical community.

Ned says he doesn’t believe he was demonically possessed from the trauma because Jesus still lived in his soul. “There was a dissonance in my life between what I refer to as ‘Big Ned,’ who was demonically oppressed, and ‘Little Ned,’ who was still very spiritually sharp,” he explains.

“When someone is demonically afflicted it doesn’t mean they are spiritually incapacitated,” he stresses. “I believe there are many good Christians today serving in churches, and even in leadership positions, who are demonically afflicted. All you have to do is look at the pornographic and sexual addiction rate among pastors and the substance-abuse statistics of Christian leaders to see it.”

Though Ned’s family didn’t know the source of his pain, it was obvious to them that he was struggling spiritually.

“I remember watching him as a little boy,” Anne says. “He was very precious and angelic, but as I watched him grow into his teens he became very selfish and manipulative. ...There was not that love or surrender to the Lord.”

After high school, Ned entered Judson College in Elgin, Illinois. He stayed there one year, and then took a year off to teach rock climbing and outdoor survival skills in western North Carolina. During a climb, he fell and suffered serious injuries. He was taken to Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, where he met his first wife.

“I was 20, and she was 26,” Ned says. “At the time I was very rebellious and into marijuana and alcohol, and I naively thought that I knew what love was and that it would take care of everything.”

After recovering from his injuries, Ned attended the University of Minnesota as a pre-med student but later transferred to Pacific Lutheran University in Seattle, where he graduated in 1986 with a degree in communications.

After graduation, he entered Fuller Theological Seminary and earned a master’s degree in theology. While studying at Fuller, he took a position as an intern of adult ministries at Bible Baptist Church. This led to a pastorate, where he served for six years before God called him in 1992 to establish East Gates International.


to be continued in part 2