Tha Fall of Man and the Law of Sin

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

It is not a case that sin brightens the picture but because evil took on sin that resulted in evil being sentenced to death. The whole time the seed of the serpent is consuming the dust of the earth that makes up our physical bodies, the thorn in our flesh that is Satan's messenger in us aka the law of sin is already self-destructing. This is the beauty within God's plan; because evil already had to exist in the spiritual realm, but then when it appeared in the physical realm, by becoming sin it was sentenced to death.

The commandment given to Adam was if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was that day they would surely die. They died physically that day because they did not live out the 1000 years that is the day. They also died spiritually that day by being separated from God because of their sin that took on death and separation from God.

While on one hand death is a result of sin; the death that is a result of sin brings forth more sin because once one leaves the presence of God that is the only thing that can withhold sin, sin rules over them. Therefore, the sting of death is sin because once we are separated from God we are in a state of death and there is nothing left to withhold sin.

However even when sin continues unchecked in its cancerous assault on humans it is self-destructing because the only place it can exist is in the unclean spirit and soul of Adam and Eve who became one flesh.




Because as the Scriptures say before the foundations of the earth were laid the morning stars jumped for joy, there was a plan made for evil to be destroyed (learning to hate evil is part of the beginning of wisdom). In the begining Adam could not sin because both he, and God who cannot sin, were both of the same Spirit. The statement in the verse saying they communed in the cool of the day translated means they communed in the spirit because the same spirit that gave Adam life from the breath of God was the spirit of God.

As long as the Spirit of God was in charge in Adam, he could not sin. Therefore there had to be a change made that would allow Adam to sin that is something he was not capable of doing when first created.

This is where the phrase "made subject to vanity" comes into play that when translated means Adam was altered so that he could not perform as he had been originally created to perform.

Romans 8:20
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

The above verse speaks of when God changed Adam that made Adam's sin a foregone conclusion, and not a matter of if but a matter of when.

This happened when God caused a deep sleep to come upon Adam and a bone was taken from him that was used to form Eve. To try to shorten this long story a little bit I'm going to hope that this point you can see that at this point the flesh of Adam was given a mind and a voice of its own that is something that was not coming from Adam before he sinned, because before Eve, Adam only followed the mind of Christ he was first created with that could not sin.

However when Adam followed the voice of Eve who that was taken from his flesh that used the senses within the flesh to determine what was good or bad, instead of continuing on with following the commandment of God, Adam deliberately made a decision contrary to the commandment of God, therefore sin and death entered into all of mankind

However, his decision resulted in evil becoming sin that got it sentenced to death. Consequently, and for the first time since both good and evil were both created by God,(Isaiah 45:7) evil started to destroy itself.

The plan was/is absolutely brilliant and only God in heaven could ever come up with such a plan (why the morning stars, aka sons of God jumped for joy; Job 38:7 ) let alone put it into effect (or as the verse above says, "subject the same unto hope)

God has accepted responsibility for man's sin and is why He appeared on earth in human form to suffer and die for us. We can deal with what hell is all about at a later time, meanwhile if you would do a search on the times the word "hell" appears in Psalms and how it is used will help.

Blessings

Doug

I have pondered whether to even respond to this thread. Luke has already addressed the major points quite well. What you present is a Biblical and theological mess. Your entire argument is a convoluted tangle of philosophical speculation and faulty exegesis. You even have me agreeing with bbyrd and that in and of itself speaks volumes.

After reading Luke's rebuttal, there is very little I have to add. He covered the main flaws. But in re-reading just now I noticed your response to bbyrd: "All I can say is please present your case carefully so by the time you are done you will realize what I have shared has God's approval."

That my friend is hubris at best and certainly a deception. No one speaking with 'God's approval" could have written the following:

“The commandment given to Adam was if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was that day they would surely die. They died physically that day because they did not live out the 1000 years that is the day. They also died spiritually that day by being separated from God because of their sin that took on death and separation from God.”

“In the beginning Adam could not sin because both he, and God who cannot sin, were both of the same Spirit.”

“As long as the Spirit of God was in charge in Adam, he could not sin. Therefore there had to be a change made that would allow Adam to sin that is something he was not capable of doing when first created.”

“This is where the phrase "made subject to vanity" comes into play that when translated means Adam was altered so that he could not perform as he had been originally created to perform.”

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I am not sure of your motive in posting. I choose to believe that you are sincere. But my friend you are seriously deceived in your theology and your view of God is horrendous.

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

I have pondered whether to even respond to this thread. Luke has already addressed the major points quite well. What you present is a Biblical and theological mess. Your entire argument is a convoluted tangle of philosophical speculation and faulty exegesis. You even have me agreeing with bbyrd and that in and of itself speaks volumes.

After reading Luke's rebuttal, there is very little I have to add. He covered the main flaws. But in re-reading just now I noticed your response to bbyrd: "All I can say is please present your case carefully so by the time you are done you will realize what I have shared has God's approval."

That my friend is hubris at best and certainly a deception. No one speaking with 'God's approval" could have written the following:

“The commandment given to Adam was if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was that day they would surely die. They died physically that day because they did not live out the 1000 years that is the day. They also died spiritually that day by being separated from God because of their sin that took on death and separation from God.”

“In the beginning Adam could not sin because both he, and God who cannot sin, were both of the same Spirit.”

“As long as the Spirit of God was in charge in Adam, he could not sin. Therefore there had to be a change made that would allow Adam to sin that is something he was not capable of doing when first created.”

“This is where the phrase "made subject to vanity" comes into play that when translated means Adam was altered so that he could not perform as he had been originally created to perform.”

Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I am not sure of your motive in posting. I choose to believe that you are sincere. But my friend you are seriously deceived in your theology and your view of God is horrendous.

Larry, I rebuke you in Jesus name!......... and after what you have posted for sure I am not your friend

You are totally off the wall and without any support for saying what you have accused me of. However, I must thank you for being so adamant because before reading your post I was actually thinking rather highly of you. Thank you for showing me my error and that you are no different from most others who cannot tell their left hand from the right hand about the things of God.

Furthermore, you say you believe in signs and wonders as evidence to God's approval and blessings on a chosen people; Amen? I think so!

Do you have testimony of God's healing people of terminal diseases by you laying hands and praying over them, do you have testimony of God raising the dead by you laying hands and praying over someone? Because I do and have the witnesses to back my words.

Before you start making more false accusations about false prophets etc.etc, consider this. When someone dies the spirit goes back to God, and only God can determine whether or not the spirit should return to the person who left. In other words to make it simple enough for you to be able to understand through your over-educated level of intelligence, Satan cannot raise the dead!

You are a perfect example of how since the time when the apostles were at the helm, the seminaries of man and their man made degrees have been leading the children of God into false worship for so long now that evil is called good and good is called evil,

You should have remained silent and not gone with the false prophet charges you have made against me........ Without repenting this will not work out well for you!

Doug

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

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Larry, I rebuke you in Jesus name!......... and after what you have posted for sure I am not your friend

You are totally off the wall and without any support for saying what you have accused me of. However, I must thank you for being so adamant because before reading your post I was actually thinking rather highly of you. Thank you for showing me my error and that you are no different from most others who cannot tell their left hand from the right hand about the things of God.

Furthermore, you say you believe in signs and wonders as evidence to God's approval and blessings on a chosen people; Amen? I think so!

Do you have testimony of God's healing people of terminal diseases by you laying hands and praying over them, do you have testimony of God raising the dead by you laying hands and praying over someone? Because I do and have the witnesses to back my words.

Before you start making more false accusations about false prophets etc.etc, consider this. When someone dies the spirit goes back to God, and only God can determine whether or not the spirit should return to the person who left. In other words to make it simple enough for you to be able to understand through your over-educated level of intelligence, Satan cannot raise the dead!

You are a perfect example of how since the time when the apostles were at the helm, the seminaries of man and their man made degrees have been leading the children of God into false worship for so long now that evil is called good and good is called evil,

You should have remained silent and not gone with the false prophet charges you have made against me........ Without repenting this will not work out well for you!

Doug

Doug, I accept your rebuke in the spirit in which it is given. I stand by my words. You are teaching false doctrine, plain and simple. Perhaps I could have been a bit more "diplomatic." Like I said, I choose to believe your intentions are good. It does not change the nature of your postings, however. This has nothing whatsoever to do with friendship or opinions. It is a simple matter of guarding the truths of Scripture. In no way do I mean to imply that all you believe is heresy. However, the things you have posted above are simply not biblical and when it was pointed out to you by others, your response was even more off base than your original statement.

All of us, myself included are to be subject to the teachings of scripture. None of us are above correction. I have been corrected on this forum and rightly so in that case and I did repent and apologize. I therefore do repent if I have in anyway misjudged you. Perhaps you were not making yourself clear. But I have gone back over your posts and shared them with some trusted advisors and the teachings you are presenting are simply not biblical and have no basis in scripture.

Let me clarify one thing. I believe that God confirms His Word with signs and wonders. But I do not accept the premise that the mere presence of a sign or a wonder is automatically God's stamp of approval, no! We are warned that in the last days there will be false signs and wonders, that have the potential of deceiving even the elect.

All teachings must be judged by the ruler of the whole of scripture. Perhaps you are right. I should not have judged you so harshly. For that I sincerely ask your forgiveness. Would you be willing to start fresh? Can we look at what you are teaching together in the Word? And let the Word alone be our guide? Would you be open to that? If not, I understand.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Doug, I accept your rebuke in the spirit in which it is given. I stand by my words. You are teaching false doctrine, plain and simple. Perhaps I could have been a bit more "diplomatic." Like I said, I choose to believe your intentions are good. It does not change the nature of your postings, however. This has nothing whatsoever to do with friendship or opinions. It is a simple matter of guarding the truths of Scripture. In no way do I mean to imply that all you believe is heresy. However, the things you have posted above are simply not biblical and when it was pointed out to you by others, your response was even more off base than your original statement.

All of us, myself included are to be subject to the teachings of scripture. None of us are above correction. I have been corrected on this forum and rightly so in that case and I did repent and apologize. I therefore do repent if I have in anyway misjudged you. Perhaps you were not making yourself clear. But I have gone back over your posts and shared them with some trusted advisors and the teachings you are presenting are simply not biblical and have no basis in scripture.

Let me clarify one thing. I believe that God confirms His Word with signs and wonders. But I do not accept the premise that the mere presence of a sign or a wonder is automatically God's stamp of approval, no! We are warned that in the last days there will be false signs and wonders, that have the potential of deceiving even the elect.

All teachings must be judged by the ruler of the whole of scripture. Perhaps you are right. I should not have judged you so harshly. For that I sincerely ask your forgiveness. Would you be willing to start fresh? Can we look at what you are teaching together in the Word? And let the Word alone be our guide? Would you be open to that? If not, I understand.

Doc the more I read the more I like you!

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

...You even have me agreeing with bbyrd and that in and of itself speaks volumes...

I am standing on the backs of giants, and my position here is not original; you either see and agree with this

http://www.wikihow.com/Recognize-the...ristian-Models

or you do not. While only one reference is given, this is the result of much study that MFox just happened to put the most succinctly. I'm curious to hear any objections to any points in the article, ty.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Doc the more I read the more I like you!

Thanks NAVY! Were you really in the NAVY? When? My hat is off to you. Thank you for defending our freedom. Recent events highlight the importance of such sacrifice.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Larry, I rebuke...

Guys, you can truncate, after you hit 'quote,' as I've done here...ty.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Thanks NAVY! Were you really in the NAVY? When? My hat is off to you. Thank you for defending our freedom. Recent events highlight the importance of such sacrifice.

Yikes, don't even get me started. I was also in the Navy, and believe me, defending your freedom had, and has, nothing to do with it. that is strictly for public consumption. You are being had on multiple levels. Have a nice day. Hi, NG! Have I ticked you off yet?

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Yikes, don't even get me started. I was also in the Navy, and believe me, defending your freedom had, and has, nothing to do with it. that is strictly for public consumption. You are being had on multiple levels. Have a nice day. Hi, NG! Have I ticked you off yet?

Mark I just figured your up in smoke with some Colorado farm fresh

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Thanks NAVY! Were you really in the NAVY? When? My hat is off to you. Thank you for defending our freedom. Recent events highlight the importance of such sacrifice.

Yea Doc I got to hang out for 25 (1981-2006) years been retired going on 7 years.

My hat goes off to all public first response teams.